Flashers and Guns

[Hawgman]

I dunno, maybe it's a male/female kinda thing but if some guy is whanking off in front of me and my kid(s) on a public sidewalk, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I'd be a little more than annoyed. Concerned, at the very least, comes to mind. However, I'll freely admit that I'm kinda funny about such things -- keep it in your pants, fellas, until you are invited to make yourselves a little more comfortable. It saves us ALL from a lot of trouble ... lol

I will also freely admit the following: 1. My gun would have already been loaded and 2. I would have probably just kicked the SOB outta way and told him to find a gutter to roll in before I would have drawn my gun on him. BUT that's just me ...

:

I am in no way, shape or form intending to make light of what this guy was doing let alone advocate it. He should be dealt with harshly by the law. What he was doing by no means be considered funny or excusable. My only point is that I can not see how a guy playing with himself would ever cause a person to think their life is in danger. Apparently she didn't feel her life was in danger because she stayed right there and took the time to load and make ready. They were in an open public place and could have quite casually walked away and called the cops. She may have been startled, offended, shocked even but no way would a reasonable and sane person think she was about to die. Now a person might accuse me of splitting hairs (probably a poor choice of analogy) but when you carry a handgun you are expected to do just that. It's a very serious thing to point a deadly weapon at someone. If you do so the circumstances need to be questioned to see if you are being irresponsible with it. Just because it was a shocking and startling situation doesn't mean it's justified to point a loaded gun at someone and threaten to blow their brains out. Had my wife or daughter done this I would expect them to stop carrying a gun till they get their mindset in order.

 

[RKM]

I don't fault the lady at all for pulling out her gun. Anybody that will do what the flasher did could very well have been after her child. Nobody knows what the intent was. She neutralized the threat quickly and kept her child safe.

To me that is all that matters.

 

[BadgeBunny]

I am in no way, shape or form intending to make light of what this guy was doing let alone advocate it. He should be dealt with harshly by the law. What he was doing by no means be considered funny or excusable. My only point is that I can not see how a guy playing with himself would ever cause a person to think their life is in danger. Apparently she didn't feel her life was in danger because she stayed right there and took the time to load and make ready. They were in an open public place and could have quite casually walked away and called the cops. She may have been startled, offended, shocked even but no way would a reasonable and sane person think she was about to die. Now a person might accuse me of splitting hairs (probably a poor choice of analogy) but when you carry a handgun you are expected to do just that. It's a very serious thing to point a deadly weapon at someone. If you do so the circumstances need to be questioned to see if you are being irresponsible with it. Just because it was a shocking and startling situation doesn't mean it's justified to point a loaded gun at someone and threaten to blow their brains out. Had my wife or daughter done this I would expect them to stop carrying a gun till they get their mindset in order.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought her behavior was appropiate. I simply said that "annoyed" was not an emotion that would have surfaced if this had happened to me. I am also not sure where you got the idea that I would have pulled my gun out and gone all Jerome Ersland on him.

This is why the law is such a fluid thing. Mindset ("mens rae") is a determining factor in many cases of this nature. Now, the DA's office might not agree with her statement about her state of mind and file charges against her anyway. And that alone, IMHO, is a major reason to get training and think through scenarios (work through them also if you have the opportunity to do so safely). Once you pull that gun everybody and their dog is gonna be second-guessing you. And they have all the time in the world to do so.

 

[Hawgman]

I don't fault the lady at all for pulling out her gun. Anybody that will do what the flasher did could very well have been after her child. Nobody knows what the intent was. She neutralized the threat quickly and kept her child safe.

To me that is all that matters.

If she felt threatened or felt her child was in danger her actions didn't refect that. She stayed in the close proximity of this supposed threat long enough to dig out her gun and magazine then load then chamber then confront. She was not in a confined space. People feeling threatened tend to want to get away from what is threatening them. She decided to stick around and play the big tough pistol packin' moma. Since it was a woman and a child was around we tend to want to excuse the blatant misuse of a firearm.

 

[Hawgman]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought her behavior was appropiate. I simply said that "annoyed" was not an emotion that would have surfaced if this had happened to me. I am also not sure where you got the idea that I would have pulled my gun out and gone all Jerome Ersland on him.

This is why the law is such a fluid thing. Mindset ("mens rae") is a determining factor in many cases of this nature. Now, the DA's office might not agree with her statement about her state of mind and file charges against her anyway. And that alone, IMHO, is a major reason to get training and think through scenarios (work through them also if you have the opportunity to do so safely). Once you pull that gun everybody and their dog is gonna be second-guessing you. And they have all the time in the world to do so.

Another thing I hear so often considered in cases like this is what would a rational person reasonably be expexted to do under the same conditions.

My comments were meant to address general concepts. Not estimate what you personaly would do in the same situation.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Another thing I hear so often considered in cases like this is what would a rational person reasonably be expexted to do under the same conditions.

My comments were meant to address general concepts. Not estimate what you personaly would do in the same situation.

Ahhhh ... OK, I thought you were talking to me. Sorry. (Can I blame it on the drugs?? You guys ... they are legal. My gall bladder went to heaven this morning ... Or maybe it was hell -- little bugger was giving me all kinds of grief there towards the end. )

And you are right about the "rational person" thing. It is often brought up by DAs to try and weaken a mens rea defense in the judge's/jury's eyes.