George Floyd Toxicology Report

[Tanis143]

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Don't try to reason.... it's pointless. He'll just keeping using strawman arguments until it degrades into someone backhanded remark hinting that you're a bootlicker. Rinse.... repeat..... like a scorned ex wife.

The problem with not saying anything against insanity like this is that people equate the lack of opposition to agreement, then they start to agree. Its how communism, socialism, and many other dehumanizing ideas grow and fester. Because those who spread those ideas say it enough that people get tired of arguing against it.

 

[Hawkstar]

Well, wife has spent time interacting with the dregs coming to the ER in the largest hospital in Oklahoma, takes care of shooting/stab vics all the time. I work on the frontier at Archer and Peoria, respond to alarms in the middle of the night, deal with homeless, methheads, drunks here.

Professionally, she is holds a Doctorate and works with surgeons, I work with engineers and top level management right up to the CEO.

I think that's a pretty wide sample of society, but maybe I'm wrong.

Qualified Immunity didn't exist until 1967, I've been around longer than that...how did previous generations manage to get by without it?

Which is why I normally start with please don't take this wrong. Things just are not the same now as when you or I started making our ways in this world. Remember mcdonald's lost a lawsuit because hot coffee burnt a customer. Hot coffee that was in a cup with a lid reading caution contents hot. A wide part of our population have been taught to hate law enforcement for several years now which Im sure has made cops look at things differently. Some are 100 percent evil but the most part probably just want to help the community and go home safe to their families. Kids are being taught to resist any authority lawful or otherwise. Which can lead to a bad ending for a simple traffic stop. But the main point that all of us should be considering is how did we get to this . Like you I work with engineers and architects all the way to the ceo and I've noticed they aren't the same as they were say 20 years ago. At 2 am anything that happens in my back yard that I can't take care of someone will call the cops. They will come into a situation that they are almost completely in the dark about and they will stand on the X to protect me. So I think I took the long way to say I'm not against a certain amount of protection for the police. While our country wastes it's time arguing points and counter points ad nauseam we spiral more out of control than ever before. As long as we are all divided and fighting each other no progress will ever be made I'm not a boot licker nor a tory but I am a fiercely loyal American having a harder time each day looking at our country and thinking of all the sacrifice hard work tears and love that has been poured out on this country by willing people over the years lost to the greed and perversion that has become our new way of life due to our complacency. Think I'll go lock my doors now.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

 

[TedKennedy]

Which is why I normally start with please don't take this wrong. Things just are not the same now as when you or I started making our ways in this world. Remember mcdonald's lost a lawsuit because hot coffee burnt a customer. Hot coffee that was in a cup with a lid reading caution contents hot. A wide part of our population have been taught to hate law enforcement for several years now which Im sure has made cops look at things differently. Some are 100 percent evil but the most part probably just want to help the community and go home safe to their families. Kids are being taught to resist any authority lawful or otherwise. Which can lead to a bad ending for a simple traffic stop. But the main point that all of us should be considering is how did we get to this . Like you I work with engineers and architects all the way to the ceo and I've noticed they aren't the same as they were say 20 years ago. At 2 am anything that happens in my back yard that I can't take care of someone will call the cops. They will come into a situation that they are almost completely in the dark about and they will stand on the X to protect me. So I think I took the long way to say I'm not against a certain amount of protection for the police. While our country wastes it's time arguing points and counter points ad nauseam we spiral more out of control than ever before. As long as we are all divided and fighting each other no progress will ever be made I'm not a boot licker nor a tory but I am a fiercely loyal American having a harder time each day looking at our country and thinking of all the sacrifice hard work tears and love that has been poured out on this country by willing people over the years lost to the greed and perversion that has become our new way of life due to our complacency. Think I'll go lock my doors now.

You're right - it's not the same country. The response has predictably (and probably by design) a militarized police force. The divisions of race and politics have us aligned thus:

"conservatives", mostly White, hold LEOs up as heroes and are willing to grant them powers over the rest of us unheard of in years past.

"progressives", diverse group, allegedly speaking for POC, hold LEOs up as Stormtroopers, ready and excited to murder.

IMHO both sides are full of crap. We need LEOs to arrest bad guys. (by "bad guys" I mean criminals that actual commit theft or violence, not crimes only because the state deems it so)

Whatever the scope of the LEO's duty, they should not be granted "superpowers" or be any more immune to legal action than a doctor or a pilot. Claiming that it's so, simply because it's a dangerous or unpleasant job isn't a reason for legal protection, it's an attempt to tug at emotional strings. Nobody got drafted into law enforcement, it's choice. Granting LEOs special protection from legal action removes rights from citizens to pursue justice in the legal system, plain and simple.

 

[wawazat]

Remember mcdonald's lost a lawsuit because hot coffee burnt a customer. Hot coffee that was in a cup with a lid reading caution contents hot.

Please dont take this the wrong way but...

A lot of folks dont remember the details of this particular lawsuit. The specific McDonald's location that was targeted had been warned multiple times for having coffee well over the highest allowable temperature outlined by McDonald's corporate. I forget the exact temperatures, but it seems like it was 40-50* over what typical hot beverages are served at. When the cup was passed through the window to the elderly woman, the lid came off and it poured on her abdomen and upper legs. She ended up spending weeks in the hospital with second and third degree burns to her abdomen and upper legs. She reached out to McDonald's wanting nothing more than her medical bills incurred due to the burns to be paid for so she didnt go bankrupt. They told her to kick rocks so she sued for the cost of medical bills and attorney's fees. The huge amount of the settlement was added on by the jury as punitive damages to that particular store not acting on multiple warnings that they were serving dangerously hot coffee. The store knew there was a risk of serious injury and that their coffee was being stored at a temperature much higher than is typical for a hot beverage, yet they refused to make an adjustment.

We had to study this in a corporate law class I took many, many years ago. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone against frivolous lawsuits brought on by people who suffered no real injury, contributed to the injury on their own, or are just treating our justice system like a Powerball drawing. This specific case just isn't that scenario.

 

[wawazat]

Anytime these debates come up, I wonder if the easiest solution would be to restrict LEO's to only covering the communities they live in. I grew up in a small town and at the time, all of our cops were also residents of the town. We saw them while they were on duty, but we also saw them off duty watching their kids play sports, going to Ole Timers Day, grabbing lunch at the local malt shop, etc. They were members of our community and everyone knew who they were when they weren't in uniform. I think that added accountability to their actions when they had to live alongside the people they served while on duty.

On the flip side they knew us and our parents. If we got caught up to no good, we didnt go to jail. We got hauled home and they used the lights and sirens to wake our parents up and announce their arrival. It made sure the folks were good and pissed by the time they opened the front door.

The other side perk is that people know what kind of people they are when they apply for the job. The ******* that is always yelling at his family and kicking his dog is known to be an ******* and wasn't given a badge and a gun in our town.

Im sure it would be FAR more complicated to do this in a metropolitan area. I would imagine there aren't a lot of future cops that live in Springlake, Dunjee, etc. I just think it would be worth the effort to try to allow members of a community to be policed by a fellow member of the community that has a vested interest in the health and well being of their neighbors.

 

[TedKennedy]

Please dont take this the wrong way but...

A lot of folks dont remember the details of this particular lawsuit. The specific McDonald's location that was targeted had been warned multiple times for having coffee well over the highest allowable temperature outlined by McDonald's corporate. I forget the exact temperatures, but it seems like it was 40-50* over what typical hot beverages are served at. When the cup was passed through the window to the elderly woman, the lid came off and it poured on her abdomen and upper legs. She ended up spending weeks in the hospital with second and third degree burns to her abdomen and upper legs. She reached out to McDonald's wanting nothing more than her medical bills incurred due to the burns to be paid for so she didnt go bankrupt. They told her to kick rocks so she sued for the cost of medical bills and attorney's fees. The huge amount of the settlement was added on by the jury as punitive damages to that particular store not acting on multiple warnings that they were serving dangerously hot coffee. The store knew there was a risk of serious injury and that their coffee was being stored at a temperature much higher than is typical for a hot beverage, yet they refused to make an adjustment.

We had to study this in a corporate law class I took many, many years ago. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone against frivolous lawsuits brought on by people who suffered no real injury, contributed to the injury on their own, or are just treating our justice system like a Powerball drawing. This specific case just isn't that scenario.

Yet gets touted as the example of "frivolous lawsuits" all the time. Is that like the "Big Lie" I've heard incorrectly credited to Hitler and Goebbels? Probably not. One should "never attribute to evil what can easily be explained as ignorance"...

 

[Fade2blue]

 

[wawazat]

Yet gets touted as the example of "frivolous lawsuits" all the time. Is that like the "Big Lie" I've heard incorrectly credited to Hitler and Goebbels? Probably not. One should "never attribute to evil what can easily be explained as ignorance"...

It does. I remember having the same thoughts watching the media coverage of it. The poor lady took the most respectable chain of actions I could imagine in that scenario and still got vilified due to poor journalism and a general ignorance of the details.


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[Fredkrueger100]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but depraved indifference would still be in play. Once you detain someone under color of law, you're responsible for their safety. Floyd was obviously in medical distress. Had the pressure applied been removed and naloxone administered to Floyd, he probably would've lived to stand trial.

That’s a good point. One thing I consider is that Floyd was acting like he was in distress from the time they started trying to put him in the back of the patrol car. Floyd said he was claustrophobic even though he was just sitting in the drivers seat of his own car. Then Floyd started telling them he couldn’t breath when he was clearly fine. He was doing anything to keep from being locked into that police car. I don’t know exactly when Floyd became unconscious in relation to when they started trying to get him help. This could be an issue if Chauvin didn’t react the way he should have. Also, Narcan might have worked for the opiates but not the meth. And honesty I don’t even think the Narcan would have worked on him. Floyd was a big dude and he had an extremely high dose of multiple opiates in his system. I’ve seen overdose victims have to be given four doses of Narcan before. And they didn’t have the combination that Floyd did. But I appreciate you bringing this up. It’s definitely another angle to consider.