Gun Hysteria

[sanjuro893]

Either justice has already been done or justice will never BE done. Sadly, the only lessons I take away from this are: 1. Concealed means concealed. (Til November anyway) 2. Dead men tell no tales. If you're dead, no one will know your side of the story so don't get dead. 3. Who can you trust? NOBODY!

 

[sanjuro893]

Hmmmm. I don't know the facts maybe Tiasman is correct about the lethal amount of prescription drugs in this guy's system. That may be the reason the family dropped the suit. Because their "qualified immunity" argument seems a little thin.

This article has the lawyer explaining withdrawing the case because of the lack of surveillance video.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/costco-shooting-victim-s-family-drops-lawsuit-against-police-142560795.html

"Scott family attorney Ross Goodman said the decision came down to what was one of the most controversial aspects of the case: the lack of surveillance video of the incident.

Goodman said that without the video, he didn't feel he could overcome a qualified immunity defense for police officers, which the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals recently has bolstered. The appeals court recently ruled that even when excessive force is used by police, officers are entitled to an affirmative defense of "qualified immunity," Goodman said.

Under federal law, qualified immunity is a defense given to government agents protecting them against civil lawsuits if they act within the established law. Regarding a law enforcement agent's use of excessive force, a plaintiff must show the officer acted wrongfully to overcome the qualified immunity defense.

Goodman and the Scott family had hoped that security footage of the incident would prove the officers acted wrongfully. But the footage does not exist."

Another article I read said that the video had been sent to California because it was too "grainy" to use in court and some company would "clean it up". Another article said a technician trying to retrieve the video files rebooted the system and wiped it in error. Maybe it was like Bricktown the other night and the damn thing just wasn't on......

 

[ronny]

How would "lethal amounts of prescription drugs" get in his system, all the while as he was apparently going about his shopping with no ill effects. Accusations of a "planted" gun, so why not "planted" drugs in his system; in excess?

From the outside looking in, I would cast a questioning glance toward the coroner's office.

 

[Mr.357Sig]

There are obviously two sides to every story, but I don't think I'll be visiting Vegas any time soon. At least, not with Roscoe.

 

[10Seconds]

Personally, if I am in a business and they have a problem with my weapon, they can put my purchases back up and I am leaving immediately never to give them my $$ again. He chose to stay and shop, and he died.

This. If you choose to stay and make a scene or fight you are just asking for trouble. I think most of us would agree on that, so then if the guy doesnt do that it makes me wonder. The drug issue starts to make a little more sense...

Also a good reminder not to go to Costco.

 

[David2012]

On its face, this is a terrible story. He should have never raised his voice..as it can make people with guns appear irrational. You don't want to come across as unbalanced like ole Howard Dean did when he was yelling during his Yee-Haw campaign speech.

My attitude is if a business asks you to leave because you have a gun.. don't ever argue or raise your voice.... because that is a argument you are not gonna win 100% of the time and you don't want the police showing up... so just be pleasant and comply.

In my city and in most cities, the police can issue a trespass warning at a business or home owner's request and you could end-up being permanently barred from the property, including the parking lot. Then, if you ever do have a real problem involving your weapon.. you sure don't want a county prosecutor being able to say that this wasn't the first issue you had involving a weapon.. that police had been called to a previous incident involving you and a weapon where a business or property owner had you posted from trespassing.

It is so simple to go to your car, leave the weapon in it and then return to shopping or having a discussion with management.

And I don't ever tell the store management that I will never shop there again [even if I don't plan too]... as you might end-up eating those words in the future. I've found that when you draw a line in the sand... people won't be willing to back down, because they feel it makes them look weak. They have just as much pride as you do. You have to leave room for bargaining without a 'you give in to my demands or else' attitude. You can see a example of that playing out in Washington's politics right now.

I would prefer to show the business that I am a co-operative, sensible & responsible person legally licensed to carry a firearm and try to change the store's policy via good conduct and friendly interaction. 'Burning bridges behind you' is never the best option.

 

[yukonjack]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/

So do you have a better article then this one? That's not fair and balanced reporting. That's an opinion piece. I sure wouldn't try to make any assumptions based on that story.

 

[HiredHand]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/


KNOX GUN-RIGHTS REPORT
COPS GUN DOWN MAN FOR LEGALLY CARRYING FIREARM
Jeff Knox explains how irrational fear led to police-sanctioned murder
Published: 3 days ago
by JEFF KNOX Email | Archive
Jeff Knox is a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His writing can regularly be seen in Shotgun News and Front Sight magazines as well as here on WorldNetDaily.

Erik Scott was a West Point graduate who went on to serve honorably in the Army, get his MBA from Duke and establish a lucrative career in real estate and as a sales rep for a medical device company. He was 38 years old when he was gunned down in 2010 in the portico of a Las Vegas area Costco store by officers from the Las Vegas Metro Police Department. While it was 7 bullets from the only people we’re supposed to trust with guns that snuffed out Erik Scott’s life, what really killed him was an irrational fear of firearms – hoplophobia.

Scott and his girlfriend had been shopping in the Costco, but had been asked to leave when an employee spotted Scott’s lawfully carried handgun. Scott had inadvertently exposed the gun when he squatted down to inspect some merchandise. He informed the employee that he was legally carrying the gun and was in possession of a valid Nevada concealed weapons permit, but was informed that Costco has a policy against carrying firearms in their stores.

A brief argument ensued, some raised voices and obvious frustration on Scott’s part, but witnesses said it didn’t seem like a big deal. They saw nothing particularly threatening about the incident or the clean-cut, good looking young man. The store manager who had spoken with Scott seemed satisfied by Scott’s reassurance that he was a legal firearm carrier and would be finished with his shopping in a few minutes. But a store Loss Prevention Officer called the police and reported that an armed man was behaving erratically in the store.

That report, based on irrational fear, and perhaps some personal envy, triggered events which quickly spiraled out of control. It seems that the fear factor was taken up a notch with each description of the story to the point that responding officers believed they were going into a violent hostage situation with a heavily armed and dangerous Green Beret.

Las Vegas MPD responded with a city-wide alert, street closures, helicopter support and deployment of a Mobile Command Center. The first officers on the scene arrived as Costco employees were following telephone instructions from the police to calmly evacuate the store.

As Scott and his girlfriend fell in with other patrons flowing out of the exit door, the Loss Prevention Officer who started the whole mess pointed toward Scott and a police officer at the door suddenly began yelling “Stop! I said Stop! Drop the gun! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!”

He fired these conflicting commands in quick succession giving Scott no opportunity to comply with any of them and then fired two rounds at Scott’s chest. As the officer began yelling and Scott realized he was the subject of the commands, he turned, lifting his hands, and apparently tried to follow the legal requirement to immediately inform an officer that he was an armed weapons permit holder, but he didn’t have time.

The officer’s frantic orders lasted for a slow count of 3 and were immediately followed by the two gunshots, a momentary pause, and a volley of several more shots. There was no pause or hesitation between the commands and the shots. The first round struck Erik Scott in the heart, the second hit his right thigh. As he collapsed to the ground, two other officers fired 5 more shots into his back. Numerous witnesses reported that they saw Scott turn and declare that he was a permit holder. Many said they could see both of his hands and that he made no threatening move. All agreed that the only gun they saw was the one in Scott’s waistband on his right hip.

Other witnesses reported that they saw Scott’s body removed by EMTs and saw nothing on the ground except blood and a cell phone, or sun glasses. EMTs reported that they removed Scott’s gun and holster from the waistband of his jeans in the ambulance and that they saw no other gun, yet, after police broke into Scott’s apartment and confiscated the firearms there, the story came out that Scott was carrying two guns that day.

A picture of the second gun, on the ground near a cell phone, after the blood on the pavement had been cleaned up, is the “proof” that Scott had two guns and pulled one on MPD officers. The store’s video surveillance system inexplicably malfunctioned for the several seconds of the shooting.

A coroner’s inquest concluded that the shooting was justified, just as a similar inquest had concluded that the gunning down of an unarmed, small-time pot dealer in his apartment a short time before the Scott shooting was ruled to be justified. Just as such coroner’s inquests have concluded that officer involved shootings were justified in 199 out of 200 incidents since 1976.

Erik Scott’s family has strongly contested the conclusions of the coroner’s inquest and the entire inquest process. They succeeded in getting some changes made to that process, but those changes have been held up by suits from the police union.

The Scotts filed a wrongful death suit in federal court, but recently dropped that effort, convinced that they had no hope of winning with the system stacked against them.

Erik Scott’s father, a former Air Force flight test engineer and writer for the prestigious aerospace magazine Aviation Week & Space Technology, has painted a sympathetic, fictionalized portrait of Erik and the events of that day as part of a new novel he is offering in serialized form at ThePermit.blogspot.com in hopes of maintaining awareness of Erik’s tragic death and bringing attention to corruption within the justice system and government of Las Vegas.

The police have a difficult job. They are put in positions and asked to do things that most of us would run away from, but authority and power must be tempered with responsibility and accountability. For decades lawmakers and courts have built up walls of protection around police and other government workers. It is critical that these public servants be protected from frivolous suits and baseless harassment, but they must be held accountable for their actions and investigations into their activities must be beyond reproach. That is not the case currently.

When one person’s irrational fear of a peacefully armed man can result in that man being gunned down by police with no consequences for anyone except the victim and his friends and family, something is terribly, terribly wrong. Hoplophobia killed Erik Scott and a corrupt system allowed his accusers and executioners get away with it.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Thanks for providing the story, I don't have enough spyware protection anymore to click on a worldnetdaily link.

IF true, very tragic. I think the lesson here for citizens is to leave immediately if told you are in violation of a store's weapon policy, otherwise, you are an armed trespasser. Sounds like he kept shopping. This doesn't justify the horrific outcome, but could have saved his life.

 

[ignerntbend]

Yep, "sounds like he just kept shopping." He knew the cops were on the way but he couldn't resist those big bargains at Costco. Who could? I think this is the third time we've killed this unfortunate individual on OSA. Can't we just let him rest in peace?