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Discussion in 'Gunsmithing & Repairs' started by trbii, Aug 21, 2020.
Not today Mr. ATF man
If it's over 18", what's the issue?
I was told by an FFL friend that to do gunsmithing work for someone else you have to have a FFL. I don't know if this is true or not. If true = the Mr. ATF man comment.
Sending a barrel to be worked on that can be removed from the receiver is not illegal. He also offered to do the work for the cost of shipping only (not for profit), also not illegal.
Maybe I read it wrong, but it seemed like he was asking advise on how to do the work himself, and if kept over 18", there's no worry about the gubment
I have never taken a vent rib off of a gun but I thought they were screwed on with small screws..I can't confirm that though.
They are not screwed on. Its some type of brazing or silver solder. I would just cut it as close the nearest rib post and clean it up. If its a ways behind whats legal. Square up the barrel and go to nearest post and cut rib off in front of it. This guy shows some different ways factory finishes the front of the vent rib.
Ask Randy Weaver about that one...
There isn’t. The modification is legal if he did the work himself or sent it to someone else to do it as long as the barrel is kept at that magical 18+ inches. The conversation seemed to drift to the subject of someone else doing the work.
Elaborate please. He was entrapped by the government.
A sawn-off shotgun (also called a sawed-off shotgun, short-barreled shotgun or a shorty) is a type of shotgun with a shorter gun barrel—typically under 18 inches (46 cm)—and often a shortened or absent stock. Despite the colloquial term, barrels do not, strictly speaking, have to be shortened with a saw. Barrels can be manufactured at shorter lengths as an alternative to traditional, longer barrels. This makes them easier to transport due to their smaller profile and lighter weight. The design also makes the weapon easy to maneuver in cramped spaces, a feature sought by military close-quarters combat units, law enforcement SWAT team users, and home-defense purposes. As a result of the shorter barrel length, any sawed-off shotgun with a magazine tube will have its capacity reduced.
In the 1930s, the United States, Britain and Canada mandated that a permit be required to own these firearms. They are subject to legal restrictions depending upon jurisdiction. They are used by military forces and police agencies worldwide.
Weaver was approached by ATF informant Kenneth Faderley (posing as a biker named Gus Magisono) who was investigating Weaver's friend Frank Kumnick. In 1989, Weaver supplied two modified shotguns to Faderley. While the ATF maintained that the weapons supplied by Weaver were illegally shortened when Faderley received them, Weaver has claimed otherwise. The DOJ Ruby Ridge Task Force Report (1994) records that Faderley stated Weaver showed him an unaltered shotgun and Faderley pointed out where he wanted Weaver to cut the gun. The ATF wanted to use Weaver to introduce Faderley to Charles Howarth who was starting a group in Montana, after which the ATF intended to drop the Kumnick and Weaver investigations. Weaver refused to take Faderley to Montana in November 1989 and Faderley was told by his handlers to have no further contact with Weaver.
Weaver was then approached by ATF agents and told that they had evidence of his possession and sale of illegal weapons, and offered to drop the charges in return for his co-operation in infiltrating the Aryan Nations. Weaver refused. He was initially arrested by ATF agents on charges relating to transfer of a short-barreled shotgun without a license in January 1991. This was compounded by Weaver's failure to appear in court to answer these charges. Weaver's original court date was Feb. 19 1991; it was changed to the following day, but Pretrial Services sent Weaver a notice citing the date as March 20. As a result, Weaver missed the hearing and a bench warrant was issued for his arrest, with the U.S. Marshals Service directed to serve it. The U.S. Marshals Service wanted to allow Weaver the opportunity to appear in court on March 20, but the U.S. Attorney's Office sought a grand jury indictment on March 14 for Weaver's failure to appear. This convinced Randy and Vicki Weaver that he had no chance of a fair hearing. During the March 1991 to August 1992 standoff, Weaver isolated himself on his property and became increasingly suspicious of the federal government, vowing to fight rather than surrender peacefully. A plan for voluntary surrender was negotiated by the Marshals Service with the Weavers during October 1991, but was refused by the U.S. Attorney involved in the case.
After long-term surveillance, the deputy director of the Special Operations Group of the Marshals Service recommended against a tactical assault on the Weaver residence. He recommended that the indictment be dismissed and then refiled later under seal, so that Weaver would be unaware of the new indictment, in hope of causing him to drop his guard. An undercover operation could then be executed to arrest Weaver without incident. His recommendation was rejected.
On August 21, 1992, several U.S. Marshals went to the Weaver property to clandestinely survey it; they hoped to update their information about the property since it had last been surveyed in May 1992. The group had strict orders that they were to avoid all contact with the Weaver family. According to a Department of Justice report on the incident, the marshals were detected by the Weavers' dogs and began to retreat. Weaver's 14-year-old son Sammy and 24-year-old family friend Kevin Harris, left the house to investigate, both carrying firearms. The DOJ report corroborates this with a statement dictated by Weaver to his daughter, in which he says that "Approximately 11:30 Friday morning....the dogs started barking like they always do when strangers walk up the driveway. Kevin, and Sam ran out to the rock with their weapons." Eventually, the Marshals stopped retreating and took up defensive positions in the woods.
The sequence of events during the ensuing shootout is disputed, with Weaver and Harris saying that the camouflaged marshals fired first and did not identify themselves. The marshals' version of events is when they were rising to identify themselves, they were fired on first by Sammy and Harris. In another version of events, the Weavers' dog, Striker, was shot as he exposed a hiding Bill Degan. Sammy Weaver then shot Bill Degan in retaliation. While running away, Sammy was then shot in the back by a dying Bill Degan and/or other federal agents. Both died. After this, the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) was called in to assist with the situation. Much controversy was later generated by the fact that, after the first day's events, the FBI had changed its usual rules of engagement; specifically, "deadly force can and should be used against any armed adult male if the shot could be taken without a child being injured."No request for surrender or announcement of officials' presence would be needed to shoot.
The next day, August 22, 1992, HRT sniper/observer teams were deployed on the north ridge overlooking the cabin. Randy Weaver, Harris, and Weaver's 16-year-old daughter Sara were seen outside the cabin. Weaver went to view the body of Sammy Weaver, which had been placed in a shed after being recovered the previous day. Weaver's back was to FBI HRT sniper Lon Horiuchi, who aimed to sever Weaver's spine for an instant kill. Weaver moved at the last second as Horiuchi fired, and the bullet entered Weaver's right shoulder and exited through his armpit. As the three ran back to the house, Horiuchi fired again at Kevin Harris as he ran away, but this time hit Weaver's wife Vicki in the head as she held their 10-month-old daughter Elishiba at the door. Vicki Weaver collapsed on the floor, dying instantly. Harris was hit in the chest by the same bullet. A Justice Department review later found this second shot was out of policy and the lack of a request to surrender was "inexcusable", since Harris and the two Weavers were running for cover and did not pose an imminent threat. The task force also specifically blamed Horiuchi for firing at the door, not knowing whether someone was on the other side of it, and criticized those who had decided on the special rules of engagement allowing shots to be fired with no previous request for surrender. Much later, a robot vehicle approached the cabin and announced the presence of law enforcement. According to the Weavers, this was the first announcement of the source of the violence.
A stand-off ensued for 10 days as several hundred federal agents surrounded the house, in which Weaver and his three surviving children remained with Harris and the body of Vicki Weaver, under a blood-soaked blanket. During the stand-off, the government force, which numbered 350 to 400 men, named their temporary camp "Camp Vicki". The negotiators, who later claimed they did not know Vicki was dead, would call out in the morning 'Vicki, we have blueberry pancakes.' To Sara Weaver inside with her mother's body, they were deliberately taunting the survivors. A vigil was maintained at the Ruby Creek Bridge by protesters who believed the government actions were heavy-handed. James "Bo" Gritz, then a third-party presidential candidate who had formerly been Weaver's commanding officer during the Vietnam War, served as a mediator between Weaver and the government. After well-known radio broadcaster Paul Harvey publicly intervened and assured Randy Weaver that he would pay for an excellent defense attorney, Weaver eventually elected to abandon the stand-off and surrender.
Since you brought up the Ruby Ridge incident that some like Timothy Mcveigh used as an excuse to kill Americans including children, I thought i'd just bring it back to the forefront for those that aren't familiar with it.
We are the government and we are here to help. Ya right.