4064 is going to be a negative for me. First load on the low side with 42.5 grains was like squishing a bag of chips. Not a yuge fan of compressed loads, so I'll run with Tac only and see how it fairs.
Hornady 165 Grain SST in 308, what are you pushing this bullet to?
- Thread starter rockchalk06
- Start Date
That amount I have found to be in a low accuracy node and yea if you seat deep it will crush powder in say Lapua cases.
I think some of my loads are 2.835" but my Savage magazine can take a very long bullet.
For cases to be able to get into the higher node with IMR4064 I must use Winchester cases that are in the 150 gr area in weight.
Now I also use a funnel to fill the cases and I very slowly trickle the powder into the cases and go in a circular drop around the funnel holding the pan with powder a couple inches above the funnel.
This lets the long stick powder stack like cord wood.
If I dump it all in quickly it will be over .080" higher in the case sometimes.
So for filling all my rifle rounds I trickle into the cases.
Well except for plinker .223 with ball powder.
It's my preferred powder for my 168 ELDM's, but they are seated way out for my bolt gun. These are seated at 2.750" according to my Hornady book. It's barely inside the crimp ring too. These are gas gun loads too.
When I was loading my 175 grain with 4064 at 2.800", I'd do the same and I'd run my tumbler on the bench. Packed it down to keep it from being compressed too much. My funnel has an itty bitty hole so it assists with this too.
If I don't get what I'm looking for with Tac, I may try this again with 4064. Really hoping Tac works out though. It meters so well from my Hornady Lock n Load measure. 4064 is a PITA.
On a side note, it may be time to add an RCBS link to my bench
Varget in my .223 loads are compressed. I could just dip a cartridge into a bucket of the powder and come out the same as the RCBS powder trickler does. Compressed loads do not significantly increase pressure or reduce accuracy.
My bolt gun .223 with H4895 crunches and is the only rifle I have that shot under 1" at 300 yards.
Yea only a 3 shot group 2 bullets figure 8 and the other was .880" away center to center.
I do not mind a little crunching and some load manuals state it is fine as long as the bullet is checked say the next day and see if the OAL is longer then that is too much powder as it is pushing the bullet back out.
NO accuracy like that.
At your very short OAL you may get into that.
Only you will know.
I hope Tac works for you.
Yea only a 3 shot group 2 bullets figure 8 and the other was .880" away center to center.
I do not mind a little crunching and some load manuals state it is fine as long as the bullet is checked say the next day and see if the OAL is longer then that is too much powder as it is pushing the bullet back out.
NO accuracy like that.
At your very short OAL you may get into that.
Only you will know.
I hope Tac works for you.
Higher case fill usually (USUALLY) helps to reduce ES and SD, but there are always exceptions. As long as one pays attention to the loading manuals, the likelihood of blowing their face off is pretty low.
Something interesting to point out to new reloaders reading this: Many loading resources (Hodgdon, Hornady etc...) actually pressure test the combinations they publish. Many of those loads hit "max" simply when they get close to SAAMI pressure maxes. That doesn't mean that you'll always see pressure signs. Brass doesn't have to have an ejector swipe, or your primer doesn't have to have a huge crater for you to be 5% or more over listed pressure maximum. A lot of guys are convinced that they're not over book pressure because they haven't blown a primer or raised a bur, when in reality they are way over pressure.
^ That doesn't necessarily mean you're fixing to blow yourself up. Everything is conservative these days for a reason. However, it will take a significant toll on brass and barrel life...and that is if you're lucky.
Temperature sensitive powders have allowed us to become more careless about simply loading to or above max. However, using ball or double-base powders can get you into trouble pretty quickly, especiallywith wide temperature swings...and that is the whole reason for my ramble here:
I recently looked at (5) .410 shells that I've fired over the past year. These were used for dispatching various pests around the house. Dad loaded them "hot" probably 30 years ago in Spokane Washington during the winter, and probably had no issues with them then. Well, of the five that I've shot here in SE Oklahoma during warm months, I've pierced three primers.
Keep in mind that these are stored indoors at a constant temperature of around 75 degrees F. This has happened with two shotguns being used. Here's Alliant's load data...and as you can see, sometimes the ragged edge isn't good.
Ive also had it happen with three rounds out of a box of (50) .357 Mags that dad loaded about 25 years ago. Dad always bragged about just looking at the published max with his buddies and loading to that point. Add to this the 29-2 of his that I had to add yoke and cylinder endshake bearings to in order to remove a lot of the slop that occurred after 2K rounds of hot .44 Mag stretched his frame loose.
Most of you guys are extremely experienced. I just wanted to warn any newcomers who came across this post and thought that they'll be fine if they can get the powder to fit behind the bullet. It isn't always the case.
Something interesting to point out to new reloaders reading this: Many loading resources (Hodgdon, Hornady etc...) actually pressure test the combinations they publish. Many of those loads hit "max" simply when they get close to SAAMI pressure maxes. That doesn't mean that you'll always see pressure signs. Brass doesn't have to have an ejector swipe, or your primer doesn't have to have a huge crater for you to be 5% or more over listed pressure maximum. A lot of guys are convinced that they're not over book pressure because they haven't blown a primer or raised a bur, when in reality they are way over pressure.
^ That doesn't necessarily mean you're fixing to blow yourself up. Everything is conservative these days for a reason. However, it will take a significant toll on brass and barrel life...and that is if you're lucky.
Temperature sensitive powders have allowed us to become more careless about simply loading to or above max. However, using ball or double-base powders can get you into trouble pretty quickly, especiallywith wide temperature swings...and that is the whole reason for my ramble here:
I recently looked at (5) .410 shells that I've fired over the past year. These were used for dispatching various pests around the house. Dad loaded them "hot" probably 30 years ago in Spokane Washington during the winter, and probably had no issues with them then. Well, of the five that I've shot here in SE Oklahoma during warm months, I've pierced three primers.
Keep in mind that these are stored indoors at a constant temperature of around 75 degrees F. This has happened with two shotguns being used. Here's Alliant's load data...and as you can see, sometimes the ragged edge isn't good.
Ive also had it happen with three rounds out of a box of (50) .357 Mags that dad loaded about 25 years ago. Dad always bragged about just looking at the published max with his buddies and loading to that point. Add to this the 29-2 of his that I had to add yoke and cylinder endshake bearings to in order to remove a lot of the slop that occurred after 2K rounds of hot .44 Mag stretched his frame loose.
Most of you guys are extremely experienced. I just wanted to warn any newcomers who came across this post and thought that they'll be fine if they can get the powder to fit behind the bullet. It isn't always the case.
You are 100% spot on. I appreciate your time to post that.
Since I load and shoot here in Oklahoma and Kansas, the temp can be 30 one day and 85 the next. When I first started doing rifle work, my mentor had me always stick below max approx. 10%. That may have been overkill to make sure I didn't blow my face off, but 25 years later, it's still working in my favor. I get chrono speeds whenever we have a big temp change and plug it all in my rifle's log book.
Forgot to add another lesson I learned the hard way when it comes to pushing max loads - Not all brass is created equal. There are pretty significant case volume differences between brands sometimes, which has a significant influence on pressure.
It hasn't been that long ago that my neighbor bought a large frame AR from me and I gave him my 168gr SMK/IMR-4064 recipe that was a solid 1/2 minute performer (which is pretty rare in the semi auto world).
Anyway, he came over with the rifle, some 165gr Sierra Pro Hunters, and Federal (Lake City equivalent) primed machine gun brass. Powder was IMR-4064.
We started at a pretty respectable (1) grain over starting charge. At 1.3gr (.3gr increase) I noticed ejector swipes...thought "it has to be the bolt", and kept going. At 1.6gr over minimum the swipes were extremely pronounced, and like an idiot I kept going because we were almost 3 whole grains under max and you can usually compress IMR-4064. .3gr more (1.9 over minimum) and I blew a primer on the first shot.
I took it back down to just 1gr above starting, and messed with seating depth until he got consecutive groups just under an inch. I was happy with that accuracy...he thought it should shoot 1/2 MOA
.
I have 2K pieces of Lake City 7.62x51 once fired brass myself. Once I get about halfway into the powder charge range, I start to develop pressure signs as well.
Anyway, just more semi-coherent rambling.
It hasn't been that long ago that my neighbor bought a large frame AR from me and I gave him my 168gr SMK/IMR-4064 recipe that was a solid 1/2 minute performer (which is pretty rare in the semi auto world).
Anyway, he came over with the rifle, some 165gr Sierra Pro Hunters, and Federal (Lake City equivalent) primed machine gun brass. Powder was IMR-4064.
We started at a pretty respectable (1) grain over starting charge. At 1.3gr (.3gr increase) I noticed ejector swipes...thought "it has to be the bolt", and kept going. At 1.6gr over minimum the swipes were extremely pronounced, and like an idiot I kept going because we were almost 3 whole grains under max and you can usually compress IMR-4064. .3gr more (1.9 over minimum) and I blew a primer on the first shot.
I took it back down to just 1gr above starting, and messed with seating depth until he got consecutive groups just under an inch. I was happy with that accuracy...he thought it should shoot 1/2 MOA
.I have 2K pieces of Lake City 7.62x51 once fired brass myself. Once I get about halfway into the powder charge range, I start to develop pressure signs as well.
Anyway, just more semi-coherent rambling.
I shot over a Chrony today .
This is not your bullet just thought I would share it with you.
155 A max Winchester case 44.4 gr IMR4064 CCI 200 2.818 OAL Temp when shot was 47F and velocity from 18" bolt gun was 2668 fps.
I shot two 110 gr loads with IMR4064 and velocity was 3049 and the other was 3017 fps Winchester cases.
Big spread. will back off the charge
This is not your bullet just thought I would share it with you.
155 A max Winchester case 44.4 gr IMR4064 CCI 200 2.818 OAL Temp when shot was 47F and velocity from 18" bolt gun was 2668 fps.
I shot two 110 gr loads with IMR4064 and velocity was 3049 and the other was 3017 fps Winchester cases.
Big spread. will back off the charge
Tac didn't do so well yesterday. I had to stop at 44.6 grains which got me into the 2700-2720 range, but I had some gnarly ejector swipes. Low SD and a group that looked like buck shot at 100 yards.
44 grains looked good on paper maybe 1.3" but the SD was high. Looking at the FPS I had 2633, 2631, 2629, 2638 and then a 2588 that just made the SD go to shat. I might back down to 43 grains and work back up to 44 to see if it likes it a bit slower. and might even play with OAL.
Will have to try 4064 now too. I hate everything about this powder except for how it prints little bitty groups.
44 grains looked good on paper maybe 1.3" but the SD was high. Looking at the FPS I had 2633, 2631, 2629, 2638 and then a 2588 that just made the SD go to shat. I might back down to 43 grains and work back up to 44 to see if it likes it a bit slower. and might even play with OAL.
Will have to try 4064 now too. I hate everything about this powder except for how it prints little bitty groups.
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