How do you train?

[Jgibs0321]

I've been lurking on the boards for a while but just now starting to post. I'd like to tell you something about myself. Not to toot my own horn, but merely to point out that I have a particular perspective about defensive firearms training. Please take what I'm about to say knowing that I do so humbly. To start with I was my unit's marksmanship instructor for about 8 years, USAR. I shot competitively in local action pistol matches for 10 years. I have taken 13 defensive firearms courses over the years and I've lost count of how many rounds I've put downrange. I'm no spring chicken.
I taught a church security group for 4 months. We did range time twice a week for 2 hours each time, I've assisted in teaching numerous other classes. Good enough.

I find that a LOT of people who get a permit to carry concealed have only taken the state-required education. And that is true on all three states that I've possessed a permit for. Here in OK the guy that did the class, I was in finished with us in about 6 hours, a far cry from the required 16 the state says is the minimum. I wonder how many people got abbreviated classes.

Once I started training, the most important thing I learned, was how much I didn't know. And the more I learned the more I came to realize that there is no end. The journey, training and practice never ends.

How many training classes have you been to? Do you plan to go to additional training this year, (despite the high cost of ammo)? When you practice, do you practice with a purpose? If you have been to classes, what do you feel the most important thing you learned was?

I make no claims at being an expert or a professional. But I am a serious student and I'm pretty dedicated to training and practice. While my daughters are grown up and married with kids of their own I still have my wife that I am responsible for her safety as well as my own, and now we have visiting grandchildren. The world seems to be getting more and more crazy so I don't let up, don't slack off much on training and practice. My wife is reasonably accomplished with a handgun as are my daughters, but that makes no difference in what I view as my responsibilities for their safety.

I'd appreciate any feedback on the questions I've posed.
Thanks,

All of my classes are primarily from the USMC. Infantry rifleman, Recon, Scout Sniper Basic, Urban Sniper, Ariel Sniper, CQB course, VBSS (boarding ships and boats) along with a little teaching of those things to others while in and also as a civilian in again, limited capacity. I have not taken bookoos of civilian courses because… well I was asked to help teach, and upon that learned that what former JSOC guys are teaching is the exact same stuff everyone who is well trained is teaching. As far as civilian concealed carry classes, its a joke and we all know that. Its a legal briefing at best in my opinion. So I personally will not dump money for regurgitated information as far as shooting is concerned as an individual. I train for a few different things on my own and occasionally with others. I focus on marksmanship and mechanics. Draw stroke, presentation, and trigger control as fast as possible while not sacrificing an acceptable hit. I work with my every day carry and also in a plate carrier and pistol belt. Fitness is key to survivability in my book so I almost always have COFs that involve running or moving weight followed by making acceptable shots. Anything less than in the chest cavity or center of a face is considered a miss. I (and sometimes others) also work room clearing for active shooter response because you may be by yourself without a team. I emphasize being able to make precise shots with both pistols and rifles and my personal standard for shooting handguns is to always be able to make headshots at 25 yards and body shots at 50. Rifles 0-100 in the lethal triangle, and 0-300 to the body from any position you would find yourself in. This is what I strive to do of course, I dont always nail it by any means. For one really important lesson learned, dont be so dependent on a firearm that you suck with everything else. You should have good situational awareness, know how to fight on your feet, on the ground, with knives, hammers, and literally anything you can get in your hands, and finally, how to treat bleeds and traumatic wounds.

 

[Jgibs0321]

The knowledge may not but I can assure you the motor skills really suffer after years of non use. After two weeks of being on vacation, I went back to work and missed the mic bracket in the car a few times. That miss was not under stress either.

Yep. Just because you once had a skillset doesnt mean you still have it now. Importance of never stop working and training. You will find out what you really know when the real deal takes place.

 

[Jgibs0321]

The knowledge may not but I can assure you the motor skills really suffer after years of non use. After two weeks of being on vacation, I went back to work and missed the mic bracket in the car a few times. That miss was not under stress either.

Yep. Just because you once had a skillset doesnt mean you still have it now. Importance of never stop working and training. You will find out what you really know when the real deal takes placei

As has been said so many times, everything is something but nothing is everything so different scenarios have to be considered. There is no comparison between the young motivated highly conditioned Spec Ops guy and Joe Average. So that said, the CCW needs to focus on the most likely. Do active shooters situations happen, of course, but are they likely? Is the bad guy in the dimly lighted parking lot likely, yes, at least more so than the active shooter scenario. Street crime is on the rise with no sign of diminishing. There are only so many hours of training/practice time, ammo, money and plain old want to available to the average person so the question is, how do you spend it? Do you spend it doing Spec Ops/SWAT stuff or bad guy in the dimly lighted parking lot stuff.

I agree 100% on wound management, also, the better your physical condition the more likely you are to cope with a serious injury.

Its not that one should spend excess time pretending they belong to a small team or fireteam even, but there are absolutely skills learned from small team environments that will take you far beyond the average joe. It isnt even advanced concepts, as far as Im concerned it is all basic. Shooting is shooting, moving is moving, and paying attention, responding, and adaptation is just a part of how all men and women should live! As stated above, I work everything I can when I can. I work drawing my pistol, knife, from a concealed holster as well as a “battle belt”. In kit and in plain clothes. High emphasis on first round hits and the best recoil management possible, one handed (strong only and support hand only) two handed (primary hand strong and support hand as the strong hand), from 3-50 yards. Occasionally I will push out to 75 just to remind myself it is possible. Not pretty but doable. Dark parking lot, dark room, dark anything, its all the same, so lowlight shooting and lowlight clearing and target ID is all apart of my normal training. Do a lot of it on a daily basis. A ton of dry fire also. Dry mechanics to the point the wife is asking me to go somewhere else . The average person will always be average unless they choose to work to be above average. I agree, limited time and a busy culture in America, so people have to figure out just what is really important to them. And yes I have a family so Im not 18 and single in my moms basement.

 

[ricco]

Depending on the wound your physical conditioning may not matter as much. Med skills are Important and need to be refreshed on occasion and practiced. Now I do agree with your prior comment in a lot of ways. Time, money, ammo, etc are always going to be at a premium. That is one of the reasons I bring in a variety of trainers in different disciplines, different levels, etc. The unfortunate thing is that there are also a LOT of people that think they don't need "training". They would be wrong. The fact that you (Ricco this is the general "you" not you specifically sir ) "have been around guns all my life" doesn't mean you actually know jack squat about defensive gun use. The CCW class you took doesn't mean you know squat about defensive gun use. Etc. People complain about the cost of range fees or the cost of a class or "why can't I draw at this public range despite never having done any training" on a regular basis. NOTHING is free Including skill.

I had a friend of mine from the Corps that lives in Missouri call me up and ask if he could come down and have me "touch him up" on pistol. Been around guns all his life, hunter, etc, and been in the Corps, but after having him on the range for 4 hours teaching some really basic stuff he had to stop because "my brain is fried, I didn't realize how much I didn't know here". There are going to be the people that come back with "I can't afford to be taking classes all the time". Ok...no one expects you to be taking a class every single month but get into SOME classes. At least get to a basic level of actual competency and do some maintenance on it.

I agree, training is a necessity for self defense. Training has been a pet peeve of mine for years. What I find irritating are the instructors that are teaching marksmanship and that's okay, (it's a basic skill we all need) but to pass it off as self defense as some advertise isn't okay. Unless a person studies fighting, as it pertains to self defense, they will buy into the age old trope that marksmanship skill equals fighting skill, the best shot will win the fight. That a person can shoot good groups on a square range on an inanimate target has little in common with a bad guy putting pistol your face in a dimly lighted parking lot. Any number of street robbery videos show that having the skill to shoot the wings off a fly at 100 yards in wind storm will do little to stop the bad guys. Self defense training has to at least in part replicate self defense. Unfortunately we have for the most part sanitized what is an ugly thing to the point that the training has little to do with the goal.

Anyway, just my rant for the day.

 

[KOPBET]

Geez, how much training do you need to walk outside on the balcony with a shotgun and fire two blasts into the air?

 

[Mr.Glock]

Every Tuesday.

 

[JEVapa]

 

[Snattlerake]

Geez, how much training do you need to walk outside on the balcony with a shotgun and fire two blasts into the air?

Knowledge of security cameras and if necessary escape and evasion.

 

[sklfco]

Occasionally, on purpose, I leave the toilet seat up at night. My thinking is anyone who can dodge that level of assault in the early morning hours unannounced is untouchable.

 

[JEVapa]

Just because you once had a skillset doesnt mean you still have it now

I find this amusing