The law.
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have any expertise in speaking legalise. However, if you have to wait until the bad guy shoots before you can shoot back, you may be far too dead to shoot back. I'm pretty sure that the law does not require you to wait until he pulls the trigger before you can engage the bad guy for this reason. If it does, then I'm moving to a different state.
Are you waiting for me to agree with you here? Wait no longer, because I do.
OCCA
okcca.net
You say that your source is "the law"
Here is what the law actually says
Please note the first section, where it says:
Do I need to dig further and find the Oklahoma statute that says the same thing?
Well, now that I've stirred up this mess, LoL! I'm going to start a thread about an AR build I'm about to start.
Not a mess at all, actually one of more interesting threads in quite awhile.
I can talk TTP's and the legal issues indefinitely and not get bored.
An AR thread, about as interesting watching paint dry.
I agree with ricco. This is an interesting thread because I also can talk about and debate the legalities concerning self-defense all day.
The gun club in Ponca is insured and certainly allows drawing from the holster. The individual can set up any scenario they want with the target stands/steel and plastic drums left on the range to simulate a run and gun behind cover, etc. one wants to set up.
It's not the insurance that doesn't allow drawing from a holster in the indoor ranges, it's safety. I've been in some in OKC seeing shot impacts right at the firing line and some right above the firing line.
One of the reasons I don't like indoor ranges.
Disparity of force is a real thing. Many thousands of people have been killed by one punch around the world. Thousands more disabled permanently by being knocked out with the head/spine hitting the ground causing spinal injuries.
30 something thug attacking a 70 year old adult with the current fad of cold cocking seniors while walking down the street, and a hundred other scenarios where death or serious injury could occur. We see them all the time on the news.
It's real and Oklahoma addresses it.
Agreed, it is real, but I might caution that many still believe in the hierarchy of deadliness myth. That is a bludgeon is not as deadly as a knife and a knife is not as deadly as a gun. Some folks believe that a fight has to be 'fair' and think that the use of a firearm against a person armed with an edged or impact weapon is excessive and the use of deadly force against fists and feet is therefore beyond the pale. We know that this is nonsense, but not everyone on a jury thinks like us, Not all judges are known for the soundness of their logic either.
Massad Ayoob has said that disparity of force is a murky legal concept and I think that there are too many variables and it is too untested for it to be a dependable defense.
Let's look at what I wrote, ".. but unless that disparity is undeniably obvious..". There is no Bright Line test on DOF and therein lies the problem, we are always looking for that Bright Line. There can't be a Bright Line because we don't know for certain when DOF applies. Just because a person is 70 years old doesn't always mean he will lose a fight with a 20 year old. If a 70 year old former pro boxer injures the 20 year old what happens to DOF? Does the fact that the 70 year old had exceptional skills and the 20 year old didn't now mean that DOF falls in the 20 year olds favor. If the 20 year old with no skills beats up a 70 year old that has skills where does DOF fall? If a 20 year old athlete beats up a 70 year old disabled person then disparity is undeniably obvious isn't it.
There is no denying that people have died as a result of the knock out game but only in rare cases is it the punch alone that causes death, very few people can land a single punch hard enough to cause death. Almost always death occurs because the persons head hit's a hard surface, concrete, asphalt, etc., although there are the rare outliers. If we are going to say that empty hands are "deadly weapons" in legal terms, we are going to need a lot more prisons. Would we want Attempted Murder charges filed everytime two drunks start throwing punches at each other, probably not.
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