I say good for Quentin Tarantino

[Billybob]

First, I think you're incorrectly using "causal association". It would be a causal association if SSRI's were clinically proven to cause violence. The pattern was acknowledged in my post. Violent people tend to become patients for which SSRI's are used as a treatment for their mental issues. That doesn't mean that SSRI's caused their violence. If they were perfectly normal to begin with, why would they ever require treatment with SSRI's? They aren't. Tens of millions of people in this country take prescription medications to deal with social, mental and chemical issues that manifest as daily issues in their lives. You point to a list of 65 episodes of violence and try to infer a link that's causal? That would fall well below the statistical margin of error for the study pool, which is the entirety of the population that takes SSRI's on a daily basis.

If your point is to infer that SSRI's are present factors in school shootings, I'd say that gasoline is a present factor in most car wrecks. A far more logical inference would be that perhaps for this small percentage of people treated with SSRI's, perhaps they are not in fact a good candidate for treatment with anything other than iron or lead?

I'm not saying these meds cause killings, and I'm not saying everyone on meds is a potential killer. But when you look at other situations of violence and suicides and the fact that enough scientific opinion has been published to make a "Prozac defense" work in court on more than one occasion some wonder if more study is needed.


In the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Volume 14, Number 1, Spring 2009, there is a journal article by Joel M. Kauffman, Ph.D., which is titled: Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) Drugs: More Risk Than Benefits?" In reference to SSRIStories.com, Dr. Kaufmann made the following statement: "Since no clinical trial involving multiple homicides is ever likely to be run, no firmer evidence is likely to be found. Healy noted that much of the evidence for suicide and murder came from the efforts of journalists and lawyers".

Prozac defense cases.
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=won

Other situations/info

User Friendly: This massive index of over 4,800 cases [which contains over 100 categories] is now capable of showing singly the 13 most important categories by clicking on the following links:
Soldier Cases
School Shootings / Incidents
Journal Articles
Workplace Violence
Celebrity Cases
Highly Publicized Cases
Won SSRI Criminal Cases
Postpartum Cases
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Murder-Suicides
Murders / Murder Attempts
Suicides / Suicide Attempts
Road Rage Cases


Click For Sortable Database of all 4,800+ Media Articles Naming Antidepressants

http://www.ssristories.com/index.html

 

[Glocktogo]

Media and the courts have zero bearing on clinical study results. The operative paragraph is the one you bolded.

In reference to SSRIStories.com, Dr. Kaufmann made the following statement: "Since no clinical trial involving multiple homicides is ever likely to be run, no firmer evidence is likely to be found. Healy noted that much of the evidence for suicide and murder came from the efforts of journalists and lawyers".

Without scientifically provable evidence, you're tilting at windmills. Anything that takes away from the takeaway that homicidal maniacs are the one common denominator and single greatest threat of murder in our society is a disservice.

 

[Billybob]

Media and the courts have zero bearing on clinical study results. The operative paragraph is the one you bolded.



Without scientifically provable evidence, you're tilting at windmills. Anything that takes away from the takeaway that homicidal maniacs are the one common denominator and single greatest threat of murder in our society is a disservice.

It makes one think there must be something "scientific" somewhere for courts/juries to accept a "prozac insanity" defense for murder on more than one occasion, and the fact that some experts like Dr. Kauffman and others are questioning these drugs.

 

[Billybob]

homicidal maniacs are the one common denominator and single greatest threat of murder in our society

I do agree with that, I just question if there could be "influences" that could push someone that way or set them off if they're already that way.

 

[ZombieHunter]

These heroin (opium) users did pretty good...

Marcus Aurelius
William S. Burroughs
Jean Cocteau
Charles Dickens
Arthur Conan Doyle
Bela Lugosi
Philippus Aureolus Paracelsus
Pablo Picasso
Edgar Allen Poe
Sir Walter Scott

Opium and Heroin are NOT the same thing, they are both derived from the Poppy Plant, actually a specific Genus but I wont go into that, The fact is that Street Heroin today has anywhere from 20-50% filler garbage in order to make more profit. That is NOT the same as opium which is the Milk of the poppy dried and smoked in PURE FORM, big freaking difference in effect and quality, which to me equals ability to maintain a lifestyle while using habitually.


Look at Columbia, as soon as you get into the mountains they drink coca leaf tea so aid their bodies in the uptake of oxygen, that is not the same thing as snorting lines of cocaine with 30% baking soda or poweder or whatever it is they mix in it. I don't know a WHOLE lot about artificially created drugs, unless they come from plants, then I can differentiate the ACTUAL drugs people think are the same. Comparing Pure opium and street heroin is like comparing Cutty sark and Macallan Single-Malt.

 

[Blinocac200sx]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Blinocac200sx]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[ZombieHunter]

I think the forum is choking, it gave me a 20 minute lag between post creation and publishing.

Edit: or its the giant 600gb session my drummer is downloading from my server....my bad.

 

[Glocktogo]

It makes one think there must be something "scientific" somewhere for courts/juries to accept a "prozac insanity" defense for murder on more than one occasion, and the fact that some experts like Dr. Kauffman and others are questioning these drugs.

You think courts/juries need science to make a decision?

Seriously, there may be a small percentage factor in a small percentage of the population. But you're talking about a statistical margin within a statistical margin, of people predisposed to be prescribed these meds in the first place. It's just not a good place to start a nationwide dialogue on gun violence. Neither are guns or the entertainment industry. It's a matter of politicians being politicians. Actual efficacy of the laws they pass is subordinate to the appearance that they're doing something.

 

[ZombieHunter]

You think courts/juries need science to make a decision?

Seriously, there may be a small percentage factor in a small percentage of the population. But you're talking about a statistical margin within a statistical margin, of people predisposed to be prescribed these meds in the first place. It's just not a good place to start a nationwide dialogue on gun violence. Neither are guns or the entertainment industry. It's a matter of politicians being politicians. Actual efficacy of the laws they pass is subordinate to the appearance that they're doing something.

"Brother Glocktogo will now lead us in a sermon aimed at informing our congregation"