Ibaka Back!?!?

[beast1989]

RW plays at an extremely high level already but his mentality, maturity level, style of play or whatever you want to call it prevents his game from elevating even further. His athleticism is outright freakish but it's largely untamed. I hate to see his recklessness end his career prematurely.

I fear RW is going to end up going through a Derrick Rose situation and never be the same. Due to the potential liability that is inherent in RW's game, I could see why Excat would lean towards a trade. The trade would have to be a home run though.

 

[excat]

RW plays at an extremely high level already but his mentality, maturity level, style of play or whatever you want to call it prevents his game from elevating even further. His athleticism is outright freakish but it's largely untamed. I hate to see his recklessness end his career prematurely.

I fear RW is going to end up going through a Derrick Rose situation and never be the same. Due to the potential liability that is inherent in RW's game, I could see why Excat would lean towards a trade. The trade would have to be a home run though.

Exactly, it's a hell of a chance, but, if you actually get several above average players for him, you are doing yourself a favor cutting ties with him. You already have a PG in Reggie that is good enough to start, does he still have maturing to do, of course, but so does RW, and in 5 years of starting, he hasn't done that yet. There are several very good PG options in the draft for a back up, that are play ready.

Excat, I agree that Brooks is not going to get it done but trading Westbrook is lunacy. Just think about the Harden trade. Outside of money, are we better off with Harden or without? Trading one of the top talents in the league for unnamed players and draft picks is how you throw a franchise into the toilet and get fired.

I also agree about the ownership being cheap asses. They had better watch out though because if they aren't willing to pony up a little bit, KD and Westbrook will hit the road and attendance/sales will nose dive. We would actually find out if OKC can support an NBA franchise. It's easy to sell tickets and merchandise when you have stars. Not so much when have a bunch of nobody's like Milwaukee, Sacramento, and Denver.

The Harden trade is one of the BEST things we've done. Anyone that thinks we should have kept Harden, never actually watched him play. Harden is FAR from a top talent. Harden is a part time scorer and full time flopper. ZERO defense. He's an average player. There is a reason the Rockets didn't make it out of the first round, and Harden is that reason. Even on nights when he isn't scoring, he still doesn't play defense, he doesn't get assist's, he's a waste of space if he isn't putting up any points. We couldn't afford both Harden and Ibaka, and we chose to keep Ibaka, which was the best decision for us. I would rather have team of 8 players that average 10-15 pts per game consistently, that play solid defense, than a Harden or Westbrook that go for 20+ inconsistently. The Spurs and Pacers are exactly why, they have built real ball "teams". This is very easy to predict, Harden doesn't win a championship in the next 5 years.

They will pony up the cash for KD, not for RW. The thing with RW is outside of his athleticism, he is just an above average player. The only reason he is indeed a superstar, is exactly what makes him a liability. So, KD has already proven that he can get it done with Reggie at the helm, and that we don't need RW on the floor to win games. KD, Reggie, and Ibaka put up more consistent numbers this season with out RW. Why is that? We ran more offense, but still not enough! You don't think the owners see that, especially out of a player that is going to cost them 8 mil a year less, that doesn't have a ticking time bomb bum knee? Exactly what beast said about D. Rose, liability is HUGE with RW. It would be one thing if he was paying it off with Championships every year, but he's not. We can't make it that far because of the one dimensional play, because we have him on the team. We beat better teams with the RJ, KD, Serge line up, than we have with RW on the floor this year. We beat the Heat with the line up, lost to them when RW came back in the line up. Beat Memphis every game with that line up, and saw what happened against Memphis when RW came back......

I'm a bigger proponent of getting rid of Brooks than getting rid of RW. I honestly think if we got rid of the entire coaching staff, and start over, we stand a better chance. We need someone that can come in and actually get RW to play to the best of his ability, to slow him down, BUT it is going to take a coach that already has their respect, and isn't going to put up with bull ****. Do we get a lot of questionable calls? Hell yes we do. Are we a bunch of over paid cry babies bitches? Hell yes we are. It's time for the Thunder ORGANIZATION to NUT THE F%CK UP, in every aspect. We would still need to get rid of T. Sef, and part of the bench though.

There is only 2 ways to go with a RW and Brooks combo, you either are always going to have the potential to be great but never get it done, or you are going to have to always wonder what could have been when you end up trading him.

 

[beast1989]

I agree that Brooks should be on the way out but at the end of the day his arsenal is limited. Literally since getting Harden in 2009 the roster hasn't had ANY major improvements and that is the responsibility of the GM. Unlike you Excat I think Harden's game could have been developed more if we had not ended that experiment so soon. Even though I know why you can envision an RW trade, I would like to keep RW and see how he performs under a different coach. (maybe Mark Jackson?)

The GM's most notable veteran signing in the last 4 to 5 seasons are Fisher, Butler, and Perkins. That just doesn't cut it when you are at the precipice of securing a title and especially when you've gotten rid of a major scorer.

 

[excat]

I agree that Brooks should be on the way out but at the end of the day his arsenal is limited. Literally since getting Harden in 2009 the roster hasn't had ANY major improvements and that is the responsibility of the GM. Unlike you Excat I think Harden's game could have been developed more if we had not ended that experiment so soon. Even though I know why you can envision an RW trade, I would like to keep RW and see how he performs under a different coach. (maybe Mark Jackson?)

The GM's most notable veteran signing in the last 4 to 5 seasons are Fisher, Butler, and Perkins. That just doesn't cut it when you are at the precipice of securing a title and especially when you've gotten rid of a major scorer.

Harden went to a much better coach, and a much better defense orientated team, and he is the reason they lost it this year, lack of consistency and next to no defense, he tries to be RW, and he just will never be that. There are good players, great players, and elite players, Harden is on the verge of being great player, and I doubt he'll ever be much better than that.

The best thing I could see for us to do, as I said is to keep RW, but with the preface that we can only keep him under a coaching staff change. If we keep the current coaching, they would being doing a great disservice to their selves for another repeat of this year. That being said, as much as I think that needs to happen, I have a hard time seeing our front office actually pulling the trigger on a coaching change. That is why I think the option of trading RW is probably our best option, as I have written off the option of Brooks being ousted. Just as you stated in the vet's we've picked up, our GM seems very afraid to shake things up and pull the trigger on a big move.

I don't know how I feel about Mark Jackson. I think there are some good aspects to him, but I don't know if he's one of those coaches that can take you to the next level, like we may just break even if we picked him up over Brooks, like a wash of sort. For a group like we have, with the lack of maturity that runs through our players, we really need a seasoned coach, that can come in and actually take charge and can change the demeanor of all our players. After all, the coach is the players' direct boss, and it doesn't seem like Brooks is very boss like, more of a friend.

 

[Fredkrueger100]

Comparing the 2012 Thunder vs the 2012 Spurs to today's teams...........we don't have Hardin......they have Greene and Splitter. Other than that, is there much difference?

it doesn't really matter. We shut them out this season and now we have our heads up our rears.
I know surge makes a big difference but when the most of the team is playing terribly even surge can't push us to victory.

 

[beast1989]

Because Brooks has become so unimaginative over the years, any change seems good right now to be honest. Mark Jackson is not the best thing since sliced bread but I think he would be a definite improvement over Brooks. Jackson improved Golden State each of the past three seasons, he also seems more hands on and involved than Brooks too.

The offseason is going to be very telling, that's for sure.

 

[twoguns?]

The reason "the team" is playing horrible is because the"super stars" have not learned to get the team around them to play at a higher level.

Two cannot beat five , no mater how great they are


That is the sign of Greatness

 

[beast1989]

The reason "the team" is playing horrible is because the"super stars" have not learned to get the team around them to play at a higher level.

Two cannot beat five , no mater how great they are

That is the sign of Greatness

I completely disagree. KD and Russ have shouldered this team for the past four seasons. To say they haven't done enough is nonsense. Elevating your teammates can only be taken so far, and believe me we are at that point. The crop of guys surrounding them for the most part just don't have what it takes and that's really the bottom line.

 

[Shadowrider]

I agree with a lot of what excat says here.

Totally agree about Hardin, he was a solid "bench player" and I think that's all he'll ever be.

Don't know about trading RW, there's a lot of risk in trading that much athletic talent. I suppose it could pay off if the stars aligned just right.

I would also keep Fisher if he's happy and content here and he agrees to similar short contract deals. He's 39 years old and isn't going to be playing many more years. I'd keep him because he's a stable and positive role model for the younger guys (not a "wannabe banger" and always getting into trouble, he's quite the opposite) and there is nobody playing today that has played in more Finals games than he has. He brings more to the table than his on-court performance and he doesn't cost a lot of money to the team.

Brooks, I don't know about. With what he's had to work with he could've done worse. Maybe a little better too, but not much. We need more firepower off the bench to actually help the starters, not just "hold on" while they get a breather.

 

[excat]

I highly doubt Fisher will be back next year. Chances are he's going to be coaching in LA or NY. I would rather see him coaching the Thunder, as everyone (fans and players) here respect him.