If they come for your guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?

[Werewolf]

In response to the OP...
Yes.

But that doesn't mean one has a responsibilty to die which is what it seems like a lot of posters want to do or believe inevitable.

I understand that you don't want to die and leave your family behind. None of us do.

It's all about living people not dieing. Living so you can serve the cause. Living so you can beat the tyrants. Living so your family can enjoy the fruits of the victory. But no victory can be won if the warriors all give up their lives stupidly and unnecessarily.

Meeting the JBT's at the front door and dieing in a hail of leaden futlility is STUPID. Dieing unecessarily and with out purpose or positive cause instead of dieing and making it count is utterly STUPID.

If one wants to stand up by his lonesome and die fighting a squad of JBT's coming for your guns then do it! Go ahead - but do it knowing that you will be dieing in vain for no other reason than satisfying your own vanity.

If one wants to die fighting the good fight then save your efforts for a time when you can do it with purpose. Save it for a time when you can serve the cause. Save it for a time when you can take out more of them than they can of you and yours. Save it for a time when you and your comrades can band together and really hurt the bastards.

Can one man's dying make a difference - sure it can - Patrick Henry comes to mind. But standing up against a squad of JBT's ain't the same thing as what PH did: NOT - EVEN - CLOSE. That man went down fighting for the cause and he made a difference. Going down fighting at your front door while your family watches and then gets carried away over your dead body to the reeducation camps is STUPID and serves no purpose. I can't say that enough. Dieing without purpose or good cause is STUPID!

Don't throw away your lives unnecessarily. That's what the bastards want.

Too many of you want to go down in a thoughtless emotional blaze of glory standing up to the man - dying for the cause.

Well guess what? If you all do that then who'll be left to fight the real battles that will make a difference and will win the war? Who? - no one! That's who because you will all have died fighting the squads when they showed up at your front door.

But do you really want to sit back and take what the government does to you when you know it is wrong?

During the revolutionary war about a 1/3 of us were rebels, a 1/3 neutral and a 1/3 pro british. Would it be any different today? That's a choice each will have to make when the time comes.

Would you rather do nothing and be alive and be owned by the government? Do you really want your children and your wife to have to live through that? I know I don't. Yes it is easy to sit on here and say that I will defend myself. I know that when the time comes it will be a different story. But, it all comes down to one thing. Do I want to be a subject or a citizen? And I for one do not want to be a slave. And I for sure don't want my son and wife to have to be one. So if we all sit around and do nothing then we will get what we deserve. Basically you are saying that you won't do anything because you don't want to leave your family behind. I don't want to leave my family either but if I can make this country better and die for doing it, then so be it.

When the time comes - if ever - many will die and do it willingly. But - if they are to win then every life will have to have been given with purpose because there won't be enough to just toss them away unnecessarily if they are to overcome.

What I am trying to convince you all of is that a live fighter is of more use to the cause than a dead martyr (and calling those of you that want to meet the JBT's at your front doors martyrs is being very, very generous).

Don't throw your lives away fighting battles you can't win. Save your life for the day when giving it up for the cause will have purpose and impact.

Don't let your balls write checks the cause can ill aford to cash.

 

[WideLoadTimmy]

I'll just leave this here.

http://gunnuts.net/2013/01/10/being-a-good-ambassador/

 

[tul9033]

GEORGE WASHINGTON
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and
everywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor
with all that is good."

"Any people that would give up
liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor
safety." Benjamin Franklin

Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr,1785

One loves to possess arms, though they
hope never to have occasion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...
disarm only those
who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws
make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they
serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man
may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's
"Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On
Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia
Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344.

JAMES MADISON
"Americans [have] the right and advantage of being
armed, unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are
afraid to trust their people with arms."

SAMUEL ADAMS
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent
the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens from
keeping their own arms . . ."

TENCHE COXE
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves?

RICHARD HENRY LEE
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."

ALEXANDER HAMILTON
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

 

[tul9033]

“I guarantee you Barack Obama ain’t taking my shotguns, so don’t buy that malarkey. Don’t buy that malarkey. They’re gonna – they’re gonna start peddling that to you. I got two. If he tries to fool with my Beretta, he’s got a problem.”
JOE BIDEN

 

[TwoForFlinching]

Don't let your balls write checks the cause can ill aford to cash.

Every successful revolt begins with a single martyr.

 

[jakerz]

A guy once told me his plan would be to turn over the weapons he had left but then procure a long range rifle and proceed to engage high level targets. Live to fight another day type thing. Sounds like a decent plan. Too bad I don't have any long range precision skills.

Come down to Ada and I'll get you fixed up.

 

[shooterdave]

Better yet, Jake. Load doc up, and come out to my place. We can shoot out to 800 yds...

 

[Fredkrueger100]

How dare you? I didn't say I wouldn't fight should the time call for it. This is not one of those times and I am already active in trying to prevent my rights from being infringed upon. But in the fight I'm currently fighting, I'm required to conduct myself in a certain fashion. Are you helping in this at all or are you just spewing on a forum like so many other armchair Pattons? My choice to leave would be simply to deny the government a "subject". I will not be subjugated. But I don't go looking for fights, either. If they try to keep me, there are consequences but if no violence is required, none will be used.

EDIT: I also have the utmost respect for our armed forces. I don't begrudge them anything and i think they deserve better than what the gov't gives them. But what you all would do would drag them into it and make them choose, oath or family. They have an oath to protect this nation from threats both foreign and domestic. You would be that domestic threat.

And who are you to say what I deserve? That makes you no different than the federal government.

When you swear your oath when you join the military as I did in the Army, you are saying that oath to protect the constitution of the United States. So going against orders that someone gave me to take away citizens guns would be going against the constitution and to my oath. So the people that you say are the "domestic threats" is wrong. They would not be domestic threats, rather, the government would be the domestic threat. They would be the ones that are taking citizens rights away. And the people would be fighting to preserve their rights. I will fight to preserve my right if I have to. Look, I hope that I never have to do that but it may happen. I would rather go down fighting for what so many before me have done, rather than coward down and let the government own me. And all of this talk about you leaving and going somewhere like the Czech Republic? Are you serious? How dare you. Do you think you would be happy in another country that isn't free? There is no other country that even comes close to America. So if you would leave just because the government takes you guns away then why don't you go ahead and leave now. You have clearly stated that you will not fight if the time comes. That you will just roll over and take it. There have been thousands upon thousands of people die to protect our rights over the years. And to say you wouldn't do the same is sad. I don't want to die no more than the next person. But I could not live with myself if I just rolled over and let the government take my rights away.

 

[WideLoadTimmy]

When you swear your oath when you join the military as I did in the Army, you are saying that oath to protect the constitution of the United States. So going against orders that someone gave me to take away citizens guns would be going against the constitution and to my oath. So the people that you say are the "domestic threats" is wrong.

I wasn't clear in that post. What I should have was said was that there would definitely be those construing you as the domestic threat and that it would be up to each individual. I elaborated on that in a later post.

They would not be domestic threats, rather, the government would be the domestic threat. They would be the ones that are taking citizens rights away. And the people would be fighting to preserve their rights. I will fight to preserve my right if I have to. Look, I hope that I never have to do that but it may happen. I would rather go down fighting for what so many before me have done, rather than coward down and let the government own me. And all of this talk about you leaving and going somewhere like the Czech Republic? Are you serious? How dare you. Do you think you would be happy in another country that isn't free? There is no other country that even comes close to America. So if you would leave just because the government takes you guns away then why don't you go ahead and leave now. You have clearly stated that you will not fight if the time comes. That you will just roll over and take it.

Inaccurate. re-read my posts. I said I would hand over my guns. I said I would leave this country. I also said I'm already fighting. I'm already doing something about it. I also said that this is not the time nor place for violence, IMO. It shouldn't devolve to war that quickly. I would be better able to continue activism with the freedom to move about without worry of travel restrictions, curfews or other crackdowns. I said in several posts that, should they try to harm me with violence, fight's on.

There have been thousands upon thousands of people die to protect our rights over the years. And to say you wouldn't do the same is sad. I don't want to die no more than the next person. But I could not live with myself if I just rolled over and let the government take my rights away.

The fact remains that none of you know me well enough to say two words on towards my character. You have no idea what triggers the fight in this dog. Come to the State Capitol on the 19th and just talk to me. I haven't rolled over in this thread, I haven't rolled over on this discussion in other venues and I will not roll over. Handing over my firearms concedes a battle, not a war. But there shouldn't be such a rapid devolution to violence and people should not even appear to be so eager to commit to this type of action so quickly. We've all been quoting our forefathers with newfound enthusiasm as of late. We have to remember that they didn't want war with England and they did everything they could to prevent it. Look at the violence that broke out when they (England) tried to disarm us. I don't want to see that. It's not me dying for my country that i would be worried about. What if someone I loved, like my mom (who doesn't move well thanks to bad hips) got caught in the crossfire because I decided "F*** you! You're not taking anything from me!"? I don't think I could live with the thought that it was my fault for not just being the bigger man in that instance and trying to come to a better resolution later.

I also think you should take care not to twist someone's words. That just makes you as bad as the liberals you seem to hate so much. As bad as the media. I'm just wanting to convey that I'd rather be cooler heads. I knew I'd get **** for it and I was willing to defend that stand and have continued to do so. That should be worth something. I'm going to continue doing things the way I have been.

EDIT: Okay, I had to add that I'm one of those guys who hates fighting. I will look for a way out until you leave me no way out. I don't go looking for fights and I'm not gonna start one which is what a lot of you sound like you're saying you're gonna do. You may feel provoked and you are, to an extent. But unless they kick in the door, unannounced with no good reason and start accosting me, I'm not shooting anyone.

I will keep saying it until I'm blue in the face: Violence is and will be my very last resort. If there is a place to go while I work on a better solution, that's what I'm gonna do. I can't think of a simpler way to put it. People in this country used to be motivated to do things, to paraphrase JFK, "not because they are easy, but because they are hard". It may be hard for you NOT to resort to that but the best possible solution is going to, guaranteed, be the most difficult.

 

[Fredkrueger100]

I wasn't clear in that post. What I should have was said was that there would definitely be those construing you as the domestic threat and that it would be up to each individual. I elaborated on that in a later post.



Inaccurate. re-read my posts. I said I would hand over my guns. I said I would leave this country. I also said I'm already fighting. I'm already doing something about it. I also said that this is not the time nor place for violence, IMO. It shouldn't devolve to war that quickly. I would be better able to continue activism with the freedom to move about without worry of travel restrictions, curfews or other crackdowns. I said in several posts that, should they try to harm me with violence, fight's on.



The fact remains that none of you know me well enough to say two words on towards my character. You have no idea what triggers the fight in this dog. Come to the State Capitol on the 19th and just talk to me. I haven't rolled over in this thread, I haven't rolled over on this discussion in other venues and I will not roll over. Handing over my firearms concedes a battle, not a war. But there shouldn't be such a rapid devolution to violence and people should not even appear to be so eager to commit to this type of action so quickly. We've all been quoting our forefathers with newfound enthusiasm as of late. We have to remember that they didn't want war with England and they did everything they could to prevent it. Look at the violence that broke out when they (England) tried to disarm us. I don't want to see that. It's not me dying for my country that i would be worried about. What if someone I loved, like my mom (who doesn't move well thanks to bad hips) got caught in the crossfire because I decided "F*** you! You're not taking anything from me!"? I don't think I could live with the thought that it was my fault for not just being the bigger man in that instance and trying to come to a better resolution later.

I also think you should take care not to twist someone's words. That just makes you as bad as the liberals you seem to hate so much. As bad as the media. I'm just wanting to convey that I'd rather be cooler heads. I knew I'd get **** for it and I was willing to defend that stand and have continued to do so. That should be worth something. I'm going to continue doing things the way I have been.

EDIT: Okay, I had to add that I'm one of those guys who hates fighting. I will look for a way out until you leave me no way out. I don't go looking for fights and I'm not gonna start one which is what a lot of you sound like you're saying you're gonna do. You may feel provoked and you are, to an extent. But unless they kick in the door, unannounced with no good reason and start accosting me, I'm not shooting anyone.

I will keep saying it until I'm blue in the face: Violence is and will be my very last resort. If there is a place to go while I work on a better solution, that's what I'm gonna do. I can't think of a simpler way to put it. People in this country used to be motivated to do things, to paraphrase JFK, "not because they are easy, but because they are hard". It may be hard for you NOT to resort to that but the best possible solution is going to, guaranteed, be the most difficult.

I appreciate that you are fighting for our rights right now. That is great. I am too. I know it sounds like I want to fight and that I am quick to do it. It's in my nature I guess. But if the government gets to the point where they take our guns the fight is on. The war is on. Because at that point what else could you do without fighting with force? If we fail to stop any new legislation we will never be able to stop an out right takeover. Unless we use force. That is my point of being ready for a war. I hope it NEVER happens but I have a bad feeling that it will. So better to be prepared rather be caught with your pants down. I would love to talk to you at the rally. And all you other fellow OSA'ers. We ought to have name tags that show out usernames and also our real names. And put OSA on it. That would help is recognize each other.