Immigration Reform Looming

[TedKennedy]

So, it's okay to break the law in order to better your situation as long as you are likely to get away with it?

My point is - the people who come here illegally aren't facing any real consequences for breaking the law, so they keep coming. It's a better risk for them than the certainty of misery back home. I never said it was OK, in fact, I'd secure the borders immediately, and seriously punish those who hire illegals. Remove the bait, and the fish quit biting.

 

[rebel-son]

Disagree. If I was born somewhere else with not much opportunity, I'd be getting to the U.S as fast as I could, law or no law. I do not personally fault anyone who comes here trying to better their situation.
Having said that, the reason so many people want to come here, is because of the system/society created by European immigrants, during and after the conquest of the native people. In our history we have imported and owned slaves, killed countless natives,took land from Mexico, butchered over half a million of our own people during a war for control of the states, fought off the British - twice, and in spite of our foreign entanglements since the 1800s, developed into the greatest industrial power the world has ever known. At our zenith, we were the exporter of the world's food supply. Our standard of living was the envy of the world.
Unfortunately, we simply cannot now afford to import millions of immigrants who do not have the skills America needs. Our former immigration policy was such that the demographics of the country, hence the culture of the country would remain european in foundation, and immigration was "as - needed", and with some skills and requirements. This changed in 1965. Without strict requirements for those we allow to become Americans, we are now facing a huge population shift. We have every right to enforce our borders, and remove those who did not come here legally, as we are now unable to afford to support, through government services, or employment for those who already live here.
The population has inextricably been affected, as demographic trends show - we are rapidly becoming less european, and birth rates, not immigration have sealed our fate.
So like it or not, the europeans that founded and developed the ideas that made this country great, are soon to be in the minority. We have allowed "feel good" policies to flood us with people that do not share our heritage, or our culture. Often the people that come here, and the ones born here that are not of european descent are taught to hate those of us who are. We owe them something, and the only reason America is rich is because of our theft and abuse of others. (so a lot of thinking goes)
The "diversity is strength" idea is nonsense. A unified America is a strong America. Without assimilation, and a shared common history/culture, we will continue to be divided.

Sounds like you agree they are ruining the country?

I agree with most of your post yet most would call it racist. I will say it once the usa has a white minority it has maybe 50 years less unless the orietal asians are in the majority.

 

[TedKennedy]

I didn't say they were "ruining the country". They are changing the country, for sure. My point is, the people that created this country, and their descendants are becoming the minority. Our system of taxpayer-funded dependence can't support those born here, much less those who enter illegally.
If those who come here do not assimilate, and identify as Americans first and foremost, the country will not be united. (we're there) I have absolutely no problem with Mexicans in particular (I'm not as familiar with other immigrants), as a whole, they work hard, and take care of their families. I'm sure most immigrants are the same.
I do have a problem with the America-hate, La Raza brand of politics that is often heard and seen when immigration issues are discussed. It is our house, for the time being, at least. It would be nice for guests to abide by our rules, and be polite. I have a problem spending taxpayer earnings to provide interpreters, Spanish driving manuals, etc...English as a second language? Our freaking high school graduates can barely read, and we're spending money teaching immigrant kids English? Teachers in many areas are overburdened with gradeschool kids that can't read or speak English. What about the ones that can? They wait on the others, further retarding an already pitiful excuse for an education.

 

[Mgarza_a]

That is a false premise, though, as many blacks that I know are also middle class, religious, supportive of business and family - and are primarily Democrat and most voted for Obama. Many Latinos see the GOP as the "white" party, and wouldn't support it as it represents the group that (rightly) wants/wanted to send them all home. They are the enemy.

I do not find this to be true at all. I come from a deep Latino heritage as does my wife. My in-laws and my own grandparents immigrated from Mexico and gained naturalization legally. However, my wife and I lived in Edinburg TX for many years and you would be surprised how many support the GOP views. Latinos do not view the GOP as the "white" party.

Most of the illegal immigrants I met while living in south Texas were actually trying to come into the US legally. These people were neither criminals nor did they desire a "free ride". They were simply desperate. I had the pleasure of working for a company that also had a branch in Reynosa. I spoke with everyone from Police officers to school teachers who made no more than $50 a week. I had many of conversations with these illegals who simply wanted to pull themselves from poverty.

While I do not support illegal immigration, I believe the US could do a better job at streamlining the process of allowing legal naturalization. I do not believe that illegals always segregate themselves with the intentions of resisting assimilation. They do however have a strong sense of family and community.

 

[JB Books]

^this is very true^

One of my best friends is Hispanic. He served in Desert Storm as a major. He is airborne and ranger qualified. He is a conservative Republican and works hard to support Republican candidates.

As to CJ's point, I think that given the vitriolic rhetoric and level of hatefulness spewed by some Republican lawmakers, it's no wonder some Latinos see the GOP as the enemy.

Look at some of the posts here. It's clear some of you regard those people as something less than human.

I completely understand the frustration at the way the country is changing. I, too, believe political correctness and the constant push for diversity hurt our country. However, it is the natural order of life for things to change. The character of America is not such that we will ever impose an apartheid system on any groups.

If you want to blame someone, blame our government who allowed this problem to build to the point of insanity.

 

[Hobbes]

Hispanic immigrants, legal or not, are natural GOP constituents.

They are overwhelmingly conservative Catholics opposed to abortion and same sex marriage.

Yet, Republicans pass up no opportunity to insult them at every turn.

 

[rebel-son]

I didn't say they were "ruining the country". They are changing the country, for sure. My point is, the people that created this country, and their descendants are becoming the minority. Our system of taxpayer-funded dependence can't support those born here, much less those who enter illegally.
If those who come here do not assimilate, and identify as Americans first and foremost, the country will not be united. (we're there) I have absolutely no problem with Mexicans in particular (I'm not as familiar with other immigrants), as a whole, they work hard, and take care of their families. I'm sure most immigrants are the same.
I do have a problem with the America-hate, La Raza brand of politics that is often heard and seen when immigration issues are discussed. It is our house, for the time being, at least. It would be nice for guests to abide by our rules, and be polite. I have a problem spending taxpayer earnings to provide interpreters, Spanish driving manuals, etc...English as a second language? Our freaking high school graduates can barely read, and we're spending money teaching immigrant kids English? Teachers in many areas are overburdened with gradeschool kids that can't read or speak English. What about the ones that can? They wait on the others, further retarding an already pitiful excuse for an education.

And as the people who set up the country are less and less a share of the population the worse it seems to be. Look at Detroit for example in the 50s and today. People dont like to deal with inconvenient truths but they are still truths. Why is it to you go to neighborhoods where the fast food joints have all the workers behind bullet proof glass and the people seem to belong to certain ethnic groups?

I agree with you and many do. its funny you are trying to run from a true comment. That is part of the problem with america is many are so politically incorrect.

Even with legal immigration. Many experts said Kennedy modifying immigration in the 60s is what led to him being able to be president. I dont think many on this board or any gun board would think Obama being president is a good thing.

 

[rebel-son]

I do not find this to be true at all. I come from a deep Latino heritage as does my wife. My in-laws and my own grandparents immigrated from Mexico and gained naturalization legally. However, my wife and I lived in Edinburg TX for many years and you would be surprised how many support the GOP views. Latinos do not view the GOP as the "white" party.

Most of the illegal immigrants I met while living in south Texas were actually trying to come into the US legally. These people were neither criminals nor did they desire a "free ride". They were simply desperate. I had the pleasure of working for a company that also had a branch in Reynosa. I spoke with everyone from Police officers to school teachers who made no more than $50 a week. I had many of conversations with these illegals who simply wanted to pull themselves from poverty.

While I do not support illegal immigration, I believe the US could do a better job at streamlining the process of allowing legal naturalization. I do not believe that illegals always segregate themselves with the intentions of resisting assimilation. They do however have a strong sense of family and community.

Great point. If they want to assimilate, become american and CONTRIBUTE then welcome to the family. the problem is people who wont vote for handouts are not what the libs want. I actually think they are afraid of making the process easier for people who contribute.

I have nothing against any race as long as they dont mess up our great nation. The problem is liberals sure have a way to try to make non-whites socialists.

Also what you say is pretty fair, but remember Texas is different. Most people consider themselves Texans, people with mexican heritage included. Personally if we had to choose a state's illegal population to legalize we probably would get a good deal with texas. Seems like many hard workers break into the usa there. Now CA and AZ does not seem like you find as many good people.

 

[rebel-son]

Hispanic immigrants, legal or not, are natural GOP constituents.

They are overwhelmingly conservative Catholics opposed to abortion and same sex marriage.

Yet, Republicans pass up no opportunity to insult them at every turn.

Republicans never insult latinos. If latino's are offended by what people say about illegals maybe they need more patriotism. Seems many are more loyal to their raza then the USA and that is why there seems to be some hate.

I WOULD MARCH FOR THE DREAM ACT if it meant the latinos would dump obama and liberals. Not having so many kids on the public dough would be nice as well in many of the cases I have seen as well, but I would settle for getting obama out of office.

Personally I once suggested we just annex mexico. Divide it between the four border states, vote out the politicians at both countries that are dead weight. I would be a marriage made in heaven

we get cornoa they get coors ligth
we get tacos they get cheese steaks ( or bbq ribs)
we get selma heyak they get jennifer aniston
we get selena they get Dolly Parton

Match made in heaven.

THEN WE SHUT THE BORDERS DOWN EXCEPT FOR THE BEST OF THE BEST

 

[rebel-son]

^this is very true^

One of my best friends is Hispanic. He served in Desert Storm as a major. He is airborne and ranger qualified. He is a conservative Republican and works hard to support Republican candidates.

Tell him that he needs to let more of his people know this and you will see great unity between patriots. I tell latino friends all the time the secret to the dream act is VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!


As to CJ's point, I think that given the vitriolic rhetoric and level of hatefulness spewed by some Republican lawmakers, it's no wonder some Latinos see the GOP as the enemy.

If they see illegals as doing nothing more than spitting on a sidewalk then they are the enemy. They need to learn its not that they are latino, but supporting socialists


Look at some of the posts here. It's clear some of you regard those people as something less than human.

With the exception of some mentioning Rubio sold out and the fact latinos have a higher birth rate I have not seen anyone say anything except about illegals. I would say the same thing about the water getting cold if it were swiss illegals if they were refusing to assimilate and breaking into the country

I completely understand the frustration at the way the country is changing. I, too, believe political correctness and the constant push for diversity hurt our country. However, it is the natural order of life for things to change. The character of America is not such that we will ever impose an apartheid system on any groups.

If you want to blame someone, blame our government who allowed this problem to build to the point of insanity.

yes you can start with Lincoln, followed by Johnson then Nixon. All did the same thing did not give a damn about minorites but were trying to get votes. Most people dont know much of the busing to schools and white flight was because of nixon.