LEO and open carry

[dennishoddy]

I believe Ok is only one of 8 states that don't have OC, or OC friendly laws.
I don't read about any of the doomsday scenarios from those states. Let's get this passed.

 

[Glocktogo]

I did not forget the comma in the Second Amendment, most here seem to think it was a period.

If you cannot have a civil discourse on the subject with people who support open carry how are you going to win over the majority who think all guns and gun owners are evil?

You know BB did not mean would should tailor laws to make LE easier, but this law as currently written may force us into "muzzle to muzzle" confrontations with honest but over-zealous gun-toters.

This law only applies to SDA permit holders. I fail to see how adding open carry will create any additional hazard of "muzzle to muzzle" confrontations. Care to expound on why you feel this way?

 

[ExSniper]

I didn't realize that pointing out your misunderstanding of the second amendment was being uncivil.

The lack of civility comment was not directed specifically at you, though now it does seem appropriate. It was a general comment of the rhetoric that has already closed down one thread and is prevalent throughout this one. I do not misunderstand the 2nd Amendment, we just seem to disagree about the verbiage and intent.

 

[doctorjj]

The lack of civility comment was not directed specifically at you, though now it does seem appropriate. It was a general comment of the rhetoric that has already closed down one thread and is prevalent throughout this one. I do not misunderstand the 2nd Amendment, we just seem to disagree about the verbiage and intent.

You contend that the entire state of Oklahoma is a "well regulated militia". Who then are "the people"? You realize that the Supreme Court agrees with my understanding of the verbiage, right? I don't see you addressing people's questions about your muzzle to muzzle comment either. Are you just trolling or do you really believe what you're saying?

 

[SMS]

You know BB did not mean we should tailor laws to make LE easier, but this law as currently written may force us into "muzzle to muzzle" confrontations with honest but over-zealous gun-toters.

How so? Has there been a rash of muzzle to muzzle confrontations in the multiple other states that allow OC?

I'm no fan of OC, but arguments like yours sound an awful lot like the hand-wringing arguments we heard against concealed carry...none of which came true.

 

[ExSniper]

You contend that the entire state of Oklahoma is a "well regulated militia". Who then are "the people"? You realize that the Supreme Court agrees with my understanding of the verbiage, right? I don't see you addressing people's questions about your muzzle to muzzle comment either. Are you just trolling or do you really believe what you're saying?

Okay, last comment. I am finally at a keyboard rather than an iPhone.

Yes, I do contend that all able bodied citizens are the militia. When they choose to exercise their right to keep and bear arms they accept the responsibility to make sure they are well equipped, well trained, and knowledgeable of the ramifications of their actions.

Yes, I believe their will be more LEOs drawing their guns on those who open carry. I have gone muzzle to muzzle with an SDA permit holder who thought it was his right to pursue a shoplifter (even though said gun owner was not in any way associated with the store) and fire a warning shot. So please do not tell me it does not happen. My belief is I will get many more calls of the "man with a gun" nature and this will result in more armed confrontations.

Once again let me make it clear that I support open carry, but not in the current form of this bill. I do hope it passes and everyone who can chooses to protect themselves and to get the training they need. I have taught thousands of people the SDA class and certified them to carry concealed. Frankly the skill level of many of them scares the crap out of me but they met the state standard and I encouraged them to seek more training.

This thread asked for LEOs opinions and I responded as such. End of comments.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

You may get a few "new" man with gun calls.
Are you up to educating the moron who calls those in?

Michigan only had a few (Detroit suburbs) when the straightened up and figured this out.

This never was a problem in Tennessee... Even before the law changed years ago

 

[abajaj11]

Well why dont we just ban guns all together because its going to make the LEOs job harder.

There is always retirement?

Exactly right! I was going to say, don't you think concealed carry also makes the LEO jobs harder? Should we ban that too?
But your post made the point even better.
It's not ABOUT making someone's job easier or harder, it's about the recognizing of God given rights, and putting guns back in their rightful place, as tools, NOT objects to be feared or worshipped.

Guns should not be a source of power, the bearing of which is only available to a privileged few. That's the old world aristocratic model that leads to monarchies and dictatorships.
Instead, guns should be an EQUALIZER, making the smallest and weakest members of our society free & self reliant to the extent possible.
hence the qualifier to 2A: A well regulated militia being essential to the security of a free state.....
meaning : the people belonging to a state can only be free if the majority of these people (the militia) are well regulated (meaning well trained) in the use of arms which are a means to protect their freedom....

 

[doctorjj]

I wonder if there is any evidence that the founders considered every able bodied person a part of the militia? I would suspect they considered the people and the militia separate, hence the wording.

Also, being that you demanded to see the studies showing the statistics of any shootings, I suppose it would be reasonable for us to demand to know the case number of the case where you went muzzle to muzzle with the vigilante.

 

[daddyof3_101]

I do see some of what ex sniper is saying. Most of the general public has no idea the laws of gun ownership. Does anybody here think the nosy 85 year old neighbor down the street keeps up with the current laws. I see LEO getting more calls about someone carrying a gun once this is passed. But no, I dont think that it will end in a muzzle to muzzle situation. I support open carry. But I will most likely never open carry myself.