Long range scope reticles

[Ksmirk]

What kind of budget do you have? I've been doing some serious research for a new scope to mount on my 308 and have found a few good sites to order from with pretty good prices.

I'll have to put in another good word for Matt that makes the Wotac scopes, hell of a nice guy and will bend over backward to hep you out if you have a problem. Myself I'd not get the mil-dot unless you plan on using the scope to range with and these days there are better reticules for that. Let me know what kind of money you plan on dropping and I'll go back thru my notes and give you the information I have. Later,

Kirk

 

[_CY_]

what you want is a Bushnell Legend 5x15 mil dot scope
optics are almost equal to 4200 series and easily equal to 3200. but mechanics are better on 4200.

drawback to this scope is size... it's a heifer. but crisp and clear with proper mil dot you need.

best of all new price is $165 + shipping ... Bushnell Legend have held the best bang for $$$ title for a bit...
http://www.opticsale.com/bushnell-l...k=gdfV2656_a_7c772_a_7c3291_a_7c027_d_755154M

used Legends usually sell for $160 range

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[Garand]

Don't forget to keep your eye on The Sample List over at SWFA.. I've grabbed up quite a few good deals there!

 

[ez bake]

http://okshooters.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2186436

This question pops up about once or twice a month. If you plan on doing any serious long-range shooting (including taking a class), you will probably do well to have some sort of reticle that you can measure with - Mil-based is a good place to start and you honestly won't find many MOA-based reticles that are in your price-range.

Range-finding with a mil-based (or MOA-based) reticle is simple - and if you know the size of your target to a reasonable degree of accuracy, you can range-find to within 20yds of it relatively easily and with just a little practice.

If you get a Mil-based reticle, you'll probably find MOA-based knobs on the scope you're looking at in the price-ranges it appears you're in. Nothing wrong with doing it old-school and there's a ton of literature on how to use a Mil reticle with MOA based knobs (but its admitidely not as easy for competition-style long-range shooting as MIL-MIL or MOA-MOA setups).

Either way (MIL or MOA), I honestly have found that measuring reticles with hash-marks (like those on a ruler) are easier to use than dots - just my preference.

Here's my opinion on the cheaper brands (I own two and have owned many other cheaper optics):

Meuller - good for the money, but not as rugged as some of the others for just $100 or so more. All the features seem to work (reticle is accurate, knobs are sloppy compared to higher-end, but do the job). I don't know how repeatable they are, but I'd guess that they're a little off if you move the knobs more than 30 or so MOA off and then back.

Millet TRS-1- Very good value, more rugged than the Meuller (and probably the Falcon Menace), but the glass isn't as clear as I'd like and they only offer a ballistic mil-dot reticle. Knobs are less-sloppy, but still not perfect - they're repeatable, but aren't super-accurate out at the very edge of the adjustment (even though I've never had to go there for a shot on a 20MOA base - I was just playing with them to see how accurate they were).

Falcon Optics (Menace) - I've got one and its by far the clearest glass for the money I've found. Knobs are about like the Millet - maybe a little less firm/clicky but more solid. I've used it side-by-side with a Leupold MK 4 (which is a very clear scope) and its easily as bright and the clarity was the same to my eyes (and several other folks who looked through both). I don't think its nearly as rugged as the SS and probably not as much as the Millet, but its seen some hard use with me and I've had it out in the snow/rain/dragged it through the brush. Lots of reticle options and knob-options - its a great value.

SWFA SS - Probably the best deal of them all - they've got lots of options - from simple to high-dollar. Their glass is clear, and their knobs are mechanically sound. Not quite as clear as the Falcon (unless you're buying the one with the HD glass), but very close. Only one reticle to choose from (I think that's how it was last time I checked).

Bushnell Elite 3200 - arguably better than the SS, but I've not really had much experience with them. I want to say that they have only one reticle option worth having for long-range (mil-dot - possibly ballistic mil-dot? Its late and I'm too tired to look them up). I did have a friend who had one and it was nice, but I didn't get to shoot it too much. Everything I've read about them online is good.

I don't have any experience with Matt's own line (Wonders Optics), but he's a good guy and I bought my Falcon from him. He seems to have a pretty good fan-base, but I'd love to test one of his scopes out seriously before I jumped on the band-wagon.

 

[Shadowrider]

I've got a Bushnell 3200 and a 4200 on my hunting rifles. I think they are the best scope out there in a value for your dollar context. Even the 3200 has very good glass. Not the best but very usable and they are multi-coated. Also the "Rainguard" coating flat works! I'd go with Bushnell Elite series, Super Sniper and Millet in that order. If Burris has a mil-dot reticle in your price range you might look at those too.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

1. No, you don't need a mildot - use a laser rangefinder to find your range. Use actual turns/clicks of the adjustment knobs for your eleveation and windage dope (i.e. 'come-ups'), like the real pros do. Mildot is unnecessary.

2. Get a higher power than a 9 or 10 top for long range shooting - you'll thank me later. On a budget, the super sniper 16x42 or 20x42 are good long-range choices.

 

[Phildo64]

Where is a good place to take classes?

 

[ez bake]

Badlands is a good one (and its not too far - Texoma). Rifles Only is another great resource in our back yard (Kingsville, TX).

I don't know if Marshall puts on a long-range class, but you might check with TDSA.

QTRMOA took a bunch of us out and showed us the ropes and it was a pretty kick-ass time.

BTW, I know more than a few "pros" who are using reticles for range-finding instead of relying on a laser range-finder.

 

[henschman]

A mil reticle helps with rangefinding, but that's not to say that you can't use a regular duplex reticle or something for rangefinding. You just need to learn the measurements of different parts of your reticle in MOA, like the width of the thick part of the post, the distance between the thick part and the center of the reticle, or between the thick parts, etc., and learn some common dimensions of the type of target you plan on shooting at... i.e., the average man-sized target is 20" wide.

Say the thick part of your duplex reticle is 8 MOA thick, and the target is half as wide as that in your sight picture (4 MOA)... you know an MOA is 1 inch per 100 yards, so you figure he is 500 yards away. You make your come-ups or hold off, and take the shot. Watch for feedback from the bullet impact, and adjust if necessary.

With a milliradian reticle you're basically doing the same thing, only you have some nice pre-determined marks to help you measure the target. You can learn some quick rules of thumb on how to measure targets in milliradians, just like you can with MOA. You can also learn your come-ups in milliradians, so you can use your reticle for hold-off. If you're going to make clicks on your knobs, you have to convert mils to MOA, but if you're already taking the time to make clicks rather than just hold off, you probably have plenty of time anyway.

Go with the best you can afford and learn how to use it to the best of your ability. Amaterus talk hardware, experts talk software.

 

[Risky_Rooster]

Badlands is the one I'm thinking of. I think the owner puts a preference for mil dot on his page. Makes sense given his background.

I've decided to go with the Falcon Menace with the enhanced mil dot reticule. It's gotten favorable reviews on long range hunter, and some of the other precision rifle interest groups as well as a good review from EZ Bake. It seems like a good compromise, I can still buy local from Wonder Optics and it has all the basics I'm looking for.

I know its not a nightforce or Leupi but chances are I'll want to upgrade down the road anyways... (I always do ) Hopefully by then I'll already know what I need in scope.

Thanks for all the great info everyone!