I personally think that property rights are important. But when you have a facility that is held open to the public, especially ones that get public funds to be run, then at some point my rights are important too, including my 2A right to carry my gun.
That's bullcrap. the only sign that gets you busted for trespassing is a no trespassing sign. Company policy does not constitute a law.
Not according to the way Tulsa law reads. A business open to the public gives implied consent to everyone. If the owner posts a no gun sign and you carry past it, the owner would revoke their consent for you to be there...you no longer have implied or express consent. This meets the definition of trespass. You are in the building with the express or implied consent of the owner.
You're adding your own meaning here. Whatever.
I work in a Tulsa Hospital and yes we will ask you to leave and take your gun out of our Hospital. If you refuse to go then we call TPD and ask them to remove you. We have a Psychiatric Facillity and a high volume of Psyc Pt's on property. And also when there is a high level of emotions when Familys are loosing Loved ones people can get very ugly to the staff and there own families. And we have armed persons with and without carry permits make threats and have to be dealt with. Also all Officers have to carry in a level 3 retention holster. And we have had a person have there revolver snached from there holster when bending over by a Psyc Pt. If it was for a tech working and knowing how a revolver works and grabbing it by putting the web of his hand between the hammer when the trigger was pulled stoping it from hitting the primer there would been some dead people. We don't like unknown weapons or unsecured weapons in buildings. And be leave me people don't secure there guns very well we have had pusres left in rest rooms and food courts. Guys have left there gun setting on the tolet paper roll holder walk out leaving it for others to find. And law enforcement bring inmates from there jails and prison system for medical treatment.
So this is why guns don't need to be in Hospitsls unless by employed Security staff and local police officers.
So this is why guns don't need to be in Hospitsls unless by employed Security staff and local police officers.
The first two sentences makes my point. That is what the law allows.
Refusing to leave when asked is one definition of trespass as defined by law, but it is not the only definition.
The first definition of trespass in the Tulsa statute reads as follows:
The business owner does not give you consent to be in their building while in possession of a firearm. Without consent, this is trespass.
How am I adding my own words to this?
While I can agree with the reasons. I would wonder if the State statutes might come into play somehow considering the parts where local laws can not supersede state laws concerning fire arms. Most likely would be sticky. Just FYI, I spent a lot of time in Hillcrest visiting a while back and made my decision to not carry inside.
This is why I originally joined this site. The laws are vague, this site covers real world issues and opinions, help us all sort the laws out better --- I think. Thanks.
This is why I originally joined this site. The laws are vague, this site covers real world issues and opinions, help us all sort the laws out better --- I think. Thanks.
The state has preemption in firearms laws, but not trespass laws. The building is private property and the owners do not consent to people having firearms in their property. If you do, it is trespass...the local boys would enforce trespass.
If we use your logic that the state has preemption in all things firearms, then it would follow it would not be trespassing when they asked you to leave and you didn't just because you are carrying a firearm and the state has no trespass law concerning firearms (other than the specific prohibited places).
That's basically my position as well. Hillcrest is one of the big public hospitals in Tulsa. My health insurance says I have to go there. My son's condition says I have to go there. The whole "property rights thing" is based on the idea that you can always go somewhere else. In this sort of situation, you really can't. If you are open to the public and the building isn't a restricted area under state law.... why are you allowed to do what a city is not? I.E., tell someone "in the public" that their rights are no good within the building?
Wow.
You could go through that paragraph and substitute teachers and students for employees at a hospital. And then conclude that this is why nobody but security guards should be allowed to carry on school grounds. That parents with CCW's shouldn't be allowed to carry. (A position that makes me beat my head on the wall!)
Or you could probably apply it to shopping malls. Or just about any place of employment. "This is a place where people come to work. They have no business carrying guns in here. Our security guards take care of everything."
IMO.... again IMO... either a place is restricted under state law or it isn't. I firmly believe the whole Post Office thing is totally wrong but... it is the law. I can understand the Courthouse issues and I won't violate it, it's the law. Etc. But other places open to the public shouldn't get to post big signs on the door telling people that "We don't trust you regardless of what the state says." And threaten to "ban you from future use of the facility?" Nobody even addressed that. Considering the conditions, that seems totally illegal. It would be denying my son care from the only pediatric neurologist available. How is that "due process?"
As I said in my first post, I really do consider it personally insulting. They don't know me, they don't know my background or my qualifications. But people might be "uncomfortable" if there were private citizens with guns around them. Well, I'm uncomfortable with a whole lot of things in our society. But I don't get to run a public hospital and set rules and regulations that insult the public. That ignore the fact that law abiding and serious citizens of this state have followed every rule and dotted every i and yet we are going to make a public statement that we don't want these sorts of people in our building.
I've always said gun rights are civil rights. These sorts of things make it even more obvious to me. We wouldn't stand for a hospital putting up signs that say No Blacks or No Jews or No Gays but somehow these signs against gun people are just perfectly fine because it's "private property!"
Gregg
Similar threads
