Occupy Tulsa

[Billybob]

There were victims, they're called taxpayers. Blame the Fed & Congress, not the companies they shielded from the negative effects of capitalism.

I agree about the Fed and Congress but I'm confused about "the companies they shielded", would that be Countrywide whose head went to prison or more like BoA and Wells Fargo who are paying millions in fines to the Gov. for their actions but little if nothing to those effected by their actions?

 

[vvvvvvv]

No doubt there's some truth in the statement, but is that all there is? Were there no victims of the financial collapse?

Other than the taxpayers who were cheated by Congress to "help" those campaign contributors who were deemed "too big to fail", the "victims" of the financial collapse that these people seem to be trying to represent set themselves up for it.

I mean, I first heard of a "balloon mortgage" in sixth grade and thought "who in their right mind would get one of those".

And I know that banks are in the business of lending money and making a profit off that lent money - the only interest they have in your ability to pay is your statistical likelihood of you paying it back plus some. And then you've got the .gov regulations that tie the hands of banks when people who meet a certain criteria come to take out a mortgage.

I've noticed a trend among people I'm connected with on Facebook, Twitter, and Google+: those who are applauding the protests almost all think that a $12/hr job is unattainable without screwing someone else over (outside of oilfield), and that $20/hr is "rich" and "unethical". I've got a New York-based freelance developer on G+ that complains about "big agencies" charging - get this - $100/hr in NYC, and the reason given is "I just don't feel right charging more than $30/hr for my services" even though the going rate in that area for freelancers is $125/hr and agencies $300/hr (at least from what I've seen).

Attitudes like that are why they aren't successful. Attitudes like that is why after 10 years in the workforce they're still earning maybe 50% above minimum wage. Attitudes like that are why many startups in my industry fail due to lack of cashflow.

If you want to success, you have to have a desire and the smarts to succeed. Jumping from one minimum wage job to another just sets you up for failure.

Don't get me wrong, I've worked minimum wage jobs. And I only moved if I moved up in both wage and position, even if that was within the same employer. I have no college degree, and I'm doing just fine climbing up the ladder - never had anyone ask about it either. I have friends with college degrees (and the tens of thousands of dollars of debt to go with them) that are working retail/food jobs that pay $9 or less per hour just because they a) think it's bad to get a job that requires a degree that is not in their field, or b) think that the jobs that could actually pay their student loans just aren't there because that's what the newspaper and the TV says.



By the way, what do you think about the protests being organized by Canadians rather than the apparent Americans taking part?

 

[mhphoto]

Not that there aren't valid points to brought up about corporate welfare and corporate greed, but here's how I see the situation:

– Liberals who converge in a public place to protest capitalism and at the same time demand that they be given a bigger share of someone else's money are called brave revolutionaries, or even worse, heros.

– Conservatives who converge in a public place to protest the immoral taking of their wages by force and the immorality of the ever-increasing national debt have sexual slangs thrown at them and are called racist bastards who are bankrolled by the Koch brothers.

 

[Billybob]

Other than the taxpayers who were cheated by Congress to "help" those campaign contributors who were deemed "too big to fail", the "victims" of the financial collapse that these people seem to be trying to represent set themselves up for it.

I mean, I first heard of a "balloon mortgage" in sixth grade and thought "who in their right mind would get one of those".

And I know that banks are in the business of lending money and making a profit off that lent money - the only interest they have in your ability to pay is your statistical likelihood of you paying it back plus some. And then you've got the .gov regulations that tie the hands of banks when people who meet a certain criteria come to take out a mortgage.

I've noticed a trend among people I'm connected with on Facebook, Twitter, and Google+: those who are applauding the protests almost all think that a $12/hr job is unattainable without screwing someone else over (outside of oilfield), and that $20/hr is "rich" and "unethical". I've got a New York-based freelance developer on G+ that complains about "big agencies" charging - get this - $100/hr in NYC, and the reason given is "I just don't feel right charging more than $30/hr for my services" even though the going rate in that area for freelancers is $125/hr and agencies $300/hr (at least from what I've seen).

Attitudes like that are why they aren't successful. Attitudes like that is why after 10 years in the workforce they're still earning maybe 50% above minimum wage. Attitudes like that are why many startups in my industry fail due to lack of cashflow.

If you want to success, you have to have a desire and the smarts to succeed. Jumping from one minimum wage job to another just sets you up for failure.

Don't get me wrong, I've worked minimum wage jobs. And I only moved if I moved up in both wage and position, even if that was within the same employer. I have no college degree, and I'm doing just fine climbing up the ladder - never had anyone ask about it either. I have friends with college degrees (and the tens of thousands of dollars of debt to go with them) that are working retail/food jobs that pay $9 or less per hour just because they a) think it's bad to get a job that requires a degree that is not in their field, or b) think that the jobs that could actually pay their student loans just aren't there because that's what the newspaper and the TV says.



By the way, what do you think about the protests being organized by Canadians rather than the apparent Americans taking part?

It could be said there are wrongs on both sides, all I'm really trying to say is that much of the country has suffered and those who planned and profited from wrongs should be held accountable for whatever their part in it was. We also need to learn all we can about what happened so it doesn't happen again.

From the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC)

Conclusions:
[The statement by the The Commission concluded that this crisis was avoidable-the result of human actions, inactions, and misjudgments. Warnings were ignored. “The greatest tragedy would be to accept the refrain that no one could have seen this coming and thus nothing could have been done. If we accept this notion, it will happen again.”]

http://fcic.law.stanford.edu/

As for the "Canook connection", not sure, your opinion?

 

[vvvvvvv]

It could be said there are wrongs on both sides, all I'm really trying to say is that much of the country has suffered and those who planned and profited from wrongs should be held accountable for whatever their part in it was. We also need to learn all we can about what happened so it doesn't happen again.

Re: the bold part -

Then you should be going after Congressmen and Senators who pushed for "reforms" that duped so many people into buying into their scam.

As for the "Canook connection", not sure, your opinion?

I think it's quite funny, and to me it discredits the movement. The whole occupation thing is being presented as an American somewhat-disorganized series of common protests, yet the Canadian activist group Adbusters was calling for it well in advance and did quite a bit of marketing and volunteer-recruiting legwork.

I'm sure some here would want to ask if that constitutes an invasion of some sort from Canada, lol...

 

[soonersfan]

It could be said there are wrongs on both sides, all I'm really trying to say is that much of the country has suffered and those who planned and profited from wrongs should be held accountable for whatever their part in it was. We also need to learn all we can about what happened so it doesn't happen again.

From the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC)

Conclusions:
[The statement by the The Commission concluded that this crisis was avoidable-the result of human actions, inactions, and misjudgments. Warnings were ignored. “The greatest tragedy would be to accept the refrain that no one could have seen this coming and thus nothing could have been done. If we accept this notion, it will happen again.”]

http://fcic.law.stanford.edu/

As for the "Canook connection", not sure, your opinion?

These idiots are not protesting against the head of Countrywide. They are protesting against capitalism. The people who got screwed are NOT the homeowners who were foreclosed on. Most of them are half of the problem and we should be protesting them as much as Wall Street.

The people who got screwed are the working people who own stocks, mutual funds and have IRAs. The people who got screwed are the responsible people who bought houses they could afford and then watched their values plummet thanks to the people who bought houses they could not afford. These are not the people behind this protest, nor do they make up the majority of the people in this protest. Even if they wanted to go, they have jobs that prevent them from it.

Protest Acorn, they were behind the strong arming of banks in the first place, and now they are assisting in the organization of these ridiculous protest meant to place the blame on capitalism. I don't mind a good protest but these protest are misguided and organized by those who are part of the problem and now hope to make it worse. Evil corporations are owned by working folks like me. I don't hate it when they make a profit, because that means I make a profit. When CEOs are dishonest and operate business illegally they need to be held accountable but that is not what this is about.

These protest are nothing more than class envy organized by people who think those who don't work should be rewarded the same as those who do. I make a lot more money than some of my friends. I also have worked harder than anyone I know. There is a trade off. I don't blame them for wanting the lifestyle they have, they don't begrudge me for having what I have. That is the beauty of capitalism. The people in this protest could stand to be a lot more introspective from the regard that there is most likely more they could do to improve their situation. They also need to adapt a worldwide perspective and realize they may not be part of the 1% but they are darn sure part of the 10%. We have it so good here and are so ungrateful for it.

These protests are a joke and an embarrassment to our Country just like the people who are participating in them and supporting them.

 

[soonersfan]

Other than the taxpayers who were cheated by Congress to "help" those campaign contributors who were deemed "too big to fail", the "victims" of the financial collapse that these people seem to be trying to represent set themselves up for it.

I mean, I first heard of a "balloon mortgage" in sixth grade and thought "who in their right mind would get one of those".

And I know that banks are in the business of lending money and making a profit off that lent money - the only interest they have in your ability to pay is your statistical likelihood of you paying it back plus some. And then you've got the .gov regulations that tie the hands of banks when people who meet a certain criteria come to take out a mortgage.

I've noticed a trend among people I'm connected with on Facebook, Twitter, and Google+: those who are applauding the protests almost all think that a $12/hr job is unattainable without screwing someone else over (outside of oilfield), and that $20/hr is "rich" and "unethical". I've got a New York-based freelance developer on G+ that complains about "big agencies" charging - get this - $100/hr in NYC, and the reason given is "I just don't feel right charging more than $30/hr for my services" even though the going rate in that area for freelancers is $125/hr and agencies $300/hr (at least from what I've seen).

Attitudes like that are why they aren't successful. Attitudes like that is why after 10 years in the workforce they're still earning maybe 50% above minimum wage. Attitudes like that are why many startups in my industry fail due to lack of cashflow.

If you want to success, you have to have a desire and the smarts to succeed. Jumping from one minimum wage job to another just sets you up for failure.

Don't get me wrong, I've worked minimum wage jobs. And I only moved if I moved up in both wage and position, even if that was within the same employer. I have no college degree, and I'm doing just fine climbing up the ladder - never had anyone ask about it either. I have friends with college degrees (and the tens of thousands of dollars of debt to go with them) that are working retail/food jobs that pay $9 or less per hour just because they a) think it's bad to get a job that requires a degree that is not in their field, or b) think that the jobs that could actually pay their student loans just aren't there because that's what the newspaper and the TV says.



By the way, what do you think about the protests being organized by Canadians rather than the apparent Americans taking part?

I apologize in advance for the sidetrack here. I just had a conversation with my wife yesterday where I argued how over rated a college education has become. For the record, I have a Bachelor's and a Master's. I am not saying there is no value in it but that it has become over rated.

If you are going to college for a specific career path, i.e. doctor, accountant, lawyer, teacher, etc., then I get it. If you are going to college, just because that is what the President thinks you need to do, I am not sure that is the best decision. The most successful people I know did not go to college. We've lowered our academic standards to let almost anyone in and let almost anyone graduate. You can get an in MBA by going to class one night a week for a year, give me a break.

We have basically diluted the value of a college degree based on this ridiculous premise that everyone needs to go college. All these people are wasting thousands of dollars and years of their life, delaying the inevitable and wondering why business aren't lined up at graduation to pay them $100k for their general studies degree. I think being a mechanic, plumber, electrician or framer can be a noble and profitable profession. Why doesn't the president encourage people not to throw their money and tax payer money away on college when they may be best suited for another profession.

Contrary to what I've just stated, I'll encourage my kids to go to college but with a specific career path in mind. If they don't have a career path in mind, I may encourage them to work for a while and figure it out before going back to school. So Veggie, I applaud you for having ambition and a good work ethic. If you decide to go to college later so you can pursue a path unattainable without a degree, good for your too. I'm guessing you are going to be just fine either way.

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

How pathetic these people are. In the mid-80's it was just as tough to get a start in life and we seemed to have survived. What did we do to our kids!?!

 

[SMS]

These protest are nothing more than class envy organized by people who think those who don't work should be rewarded the same as those who do. I make a lot more money than some of my friends. I also have worked harder than anyone I know. There is a trade off. I don't blame them for wanting the lifestyle they have, they don't begrudge me for having what I have. That is the beauty of capitalism. ....
These protests are a joke and an embarrassment to our Country just like the people who are participating in them and supporting them.

I agree but some of these folks actually do work, they just work at things that aren't valued enough by the market to sustain a business or a lifestyle with...and they think the rest of the taxpayers should subsidize their endevour. This is seen on a large scale with alternative energy and on a small scale with individuals.

My very progressive, liberal sister is deeply involved with these people and I once remember her trying to secure a public grant for a lady in her town so she could continue sewing quilts at home...the lady actually worked pretty hard, all day, making quilts at home....but you cant sustain yourself making quilts and selling them with a one person shop in this day and age...that's not my fault and I shouldn't have to give you money so you can continue doing that.

 

[BadgeBunny]

I agree but some of these folks actually do work, they just work at things that aren't valued enough by the market to sustain a business or a lifestyle with...and they think the rest of the taxpayers should subsidize their endevour. This is seen on a large scale with alternative energy and on a small scale with individuals.

My very progressive, liberal sister is deeply involved with these people and I once remember her trying to secure a public grant for a lady in her town so she could continue sewing quilts at home...the lady actually worked pretty hard, all day, making quilts at home....but you cant sustain yourself making quilts and selling them with a one person shop in this day and age...that's not my fault and I shouldn't have to give you money so you can continue doing that.

Thank you.