Please help w/ FFL questions - I have problems w/ question 11c

[StephanieD]

Hi, my name is Stephanie, I went to pick up my DE .50 Tiger Stripe Gold, that I paid for & have waited for 11 months to be delivered. it came in today & I went to pick it up. On the FFL, question 11c, I answered yes & was denied sale for 24 hours although I'm gonna answer it the same way tomorrow & have, w/i the last 2 yrs bought a Bushmaster .223 & a Ruger .9mm, having answered "yes" to that same question & not had a problem. I understand the question & the verbage, but some ppl apparently do not & I've asked over & over how to answer this friggin question honestly! Furthermore, to add to my aggravation, I've read the instructions & still dont know how to honestly answer this question & no one seems to know how to or be able to advise me - they don't pay attention to all the words in the sentence & it just ends up in an argument over th English language & me getting upset that I can't have the gun because I don't know how to honestly answer it! And that I've bought two guns, even one of those "scary black assault rifles", answering yes to 11c.

I'm hoping maybe someone in this forum w/ firearm legal experience will help me. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

Ok, here are my skeletons in my closet - I'm now 45 w/ a long, respectable career in healthcare - in my younger days I was a little wild - my mother was shot & killed by my stepfather when I was 12, after 3 nightmarish years of drunken abuse by him which culminated w/ her death. I kinda went down the wrong path for a little while as a teen/young adult then turned it around & got my sh*t together & I'm now a decent, honest, law abiding taxpayer!

At 18 I was convicted of petty shoplifting on a dare, a tube of lipstick - stupid I know - & while processing me in they found a small "roach" in my purse - literally a 3/4 smoked joint (marijauna) for which I was also convicted for - possession of CDS. Bonded out, paid fine, deferred sentence - done. Never shoplifted/stolen anything since - like I said it was on a dare, stupid kid sh*t.

When I was 23 I was convicted of 1st time (only time) DUI, bonded out, deferred sentence, paid fine, done.

When I was 30 I was convicted of disorderly conduct - bonded out, deferred sentence, paid fine, done.

FFL 11c asks "Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Instructions for Question 11.c.)"

I've never been charged w/, much less been convicted of a felony. But it also includes "any other crime" - & yes, I have been convicted of "any other crime" - all misdemeanors. The part that really gets me is "for which the judge COULD have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?" Well, as we all know, there are maximum & minimum sentences for crimes & the judge decides to either give you the minimum or the maximum or somewhere in between. I don't know if any of my misdemeanors COULD have, given the maximum sentence possible for the charge, for which the judge COULD have imprisoned me for more than one year. I don't know what the maximum sentences for my misdemeanors COULD have been????? I mean, I don't know, could my DUI, w/ the maximum sentence imposed by the judge, sent me to jail for more than a year? What about the shoplifting & possession? What about the disorderly conduct? If, given the maximum sentence, could any of those ended up w/ imprisonment for more than one year? I don't know, no one seems to be able to help me w/ this & now, unless I can figure out how to answer that question, honestly, the big outdoor sports store in the city won't sell me the gun even though I have bought two other guns answering that same question "yes".

I would appreciate any help w/ this - the guy at the store would not help me w/ it even though I explained the situation & told him I've bought guns in the past & not had a problem w/ that question. I can't answer it "no" since I don't know what I COULD have been sentenced - right? I don't want to lie & selecting "yes" seemed the honest way to answer since I don't know.

And why did I not have a problem w/ my two other gun purchases? I answered "yes" & they ran it thru the system & I was good to go - I don't understand!

If no one can help me w/ this could someone at least tell me who to call? Or is no one on the planet allowed to advise ppl on this question?

Thanks in advance & if I broke some rule or law by asking for advice on this I am sorry - I didn't know.

StephanieD

 

[Gabriel42]

§21 10. Punishment of misdemeanor.
Except in cases where a different punishment is prescribed by this chapter or by some existing provisions of law, every offense declared to be a misdemeanor is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year or by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars, or both such fine and imprisonment.
R.L.1910, § 2091.

Looks like you should be answering "No" if the offenses were committed in Oklahoma but I'm no lawyer.

 

[StephanieD]

Hi, thanks so much for the advice! I don't know why the guy at the store couldn't do that! Now I'm so embarrassed & humiliated that I'm thinking of just telling them to refund my $2500 & I'll buy it somewhere else. That is an OK statute - do you know if it would be the same in other states? I got into trouble in OK, FL & TX.

Thanx again!

Stephanie

 

[Gabriel42]

Hi, thanks so much for the advice! I don't know why the guy at the store couldn't do that! Now I'm so embarrassed & humiliated that I'm thinking of just telling them to refund my $2500 & I'll buy it somewhere else. That is an OK statute - do you know if it would be the same in other states? I got into trouble in OK, FL & TX.

Thanx again!

Stephanie

Mostly, because it's not their job. Which offense happened in which jurisdiction?

 

[StephanieD]

Shoplifting/possession (even though it's a stretch to call a small roach "possession" in my opinion) - West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida

DUI - Dallas, Dallas County, TX

Disorderly Conduct - OKC, OK

I haven't been in any trouble in 15 years & a couple of them go back almost 30 yrs. I am a very decent, honest, law abiding person w/ very high morals & ethics now - I just had some bad experiences to learn how to deal w/.

Thanks so much,

Stephanie

 

[cmhbob]

Rule of thumb: felonies will get you more than a year. Misdemeanors will get you less than a year. First offense DUI back then was certainly a misdemeanor. DC is always a misdemeanor, and in most states rarely results in jail time. Theft of a $5 item is petty theft, and was almost certainly a misdemeanor.

If I were in your shoes, since none of those offenses were a crime of violence, and in your best efforts to determine the right answer, you haven't found anything definitive, I'd answer "No" to 11C. But I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

 

[Gabriel42]

Theft of any property not specified in subsection (2) is petit theft of the second degree and a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, and as provided in subsection (5), as applicable.

For a misdemeanor of the second degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 60 days.

DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person is intoxicated while operating a motor vehicle in a public place.
(b) Except as provided by Subsections (c) and (d) and Section 49.09, an offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor, with a minimum term of confinement of 72 hours.
(c) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that at the time of the offense the person operating the motor vehicle had an open container of alcohol in the person's immediate possession, the offense is a Class B misdemeanor, with a minimum term of confinement of six days.
(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that an analysis of a specimen of the person's blood, breath, or urine showed an alcohol concentration level of 0.15 or more at the time the analysis was performed, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor.

CLASS A MISDEMEANOR. An individual adjudged guilty of a Class A misdemeanor shall be punished by:
(1) a fine not to exceed $4,000;
(2) confinement in jail for a term not to exceed one year; or
(3) both such fine and confinement.

And we've already covered Oklahoma.

[Broken External Image]

 

[Hoov]

Time out. You should talk to your attorney. Do not lie on the form.

 

[StephanieD]

Hi Bob!

Thank you so much! That sounds pretty logical to me - I mean I kinda figured that none of them could land me in jail for more than a year but I didn't know for sure & the DUI & the shoplifting combined w/ possession were the ones that concerned me the most & seemed like they probably COULD have carried a sentence of more than a year - not much more I wouldn't think - but if that were the case then I would certainly have to be honest & answer "yes" - I didn't want to get caught up in a lie - they really should change that question around, COULD HAVE is pretty broad & vague & difficult to answer - breaking it up into "have a felony?", "any other crimes? If yes list them in the space below", "Could have been sentenced to more than a year?" should have an "I don't know for sure" option & then just list the convictions & they will know (or should anyway) being the FBI & all, if that conviction COULD have resulted in a sentence of more than a year. But that is just my opinion & it usually doesn't count for much!

In my profession I go thru background checks yearly, both OSBI & the national NCIC database, & come up clear - oddly enough those misdemeanors don't show up but I always disclose upfront if asked if I've ever been arrested for anything - honesty is best - if you hide it it will always come back to bite you in the a** sooner or later & then you not only look like a criminal but a liar as well.

Thanks so much again,

Stephanie

 

[Shadowrider]

From reading the instructions on the form 4473 it sounds like you should be answering "NO".

As long as the offenses are misdemeanors AND If you are able to vote, set on a jury, or hold public office in the jurisdiction of the offense it tells you to answer "NO" even if you could have been sentenced to more than a year. Also since it's long after your deferred sentence(s) it's gone anyway right? I know for certain that it's that way in OK, not so sure about other states. In OKLAHOMA it's not considered a conviction even while you are under the deferment period, but your probation agreement will most definitely bar possession of any firearm, so it would be a definite no-go. But after that I think you are golden if you've stayed in good graces through the whole deferred sentence.

(No I haven't found this out 1st hand, but I know someone who has)