Proposed Regulation Changes for ODWC

[okievarmint]

Someone not killing a doe because they can’t kill a buck doesn’t make sense, and is very short-sighted; management-wise. When I started doing this on my land, none of the people that hunt here have quit coming any year. As a matter of fact, I have a lot of people that want to hunt my place, doe or buck! Would a lease go un-leased if it were doe only every third year? Not in this day and age. If someone walked away from a lease because they were asked to hunt no bucks every third year, someone else would gladly take over that lease. I have always planted food plots, fed supplements, among other management practices, but when I started this 18 years ago, the quality and number of bucks has increased substantially here. The number and quality of bucks in surrounding areas has remained static. I'm not dealing in probabilities, it works.
My Grandaughters buck this year.

 

[AllOut]

Well congrats to your granddaughter that's a cool buck.
I'm not arguing that it wouldn't work if done correctly, I'm saying you would never get everyone to play along state wide.

As for the leasing part, ya it sounds bad. But we spend thousands of dollars on leases 3hrs away from home. Why? Because the area we are in has a lot of big bucks, plus a ton of doe as a bonus. If I was fine with just killing doe I would just spend half as much close to the house or just hunt public for free (I've killed plenty of doe on public with a bow). A large portion of the guys that lease in our area are also "out of towers" who pay a lot more than us. We are lucky and have a good relationship, friends you could say with the guys we lease from. I'm not worried about losing a lease, I would just get it back the next year.
So answer me this... Why would anyone pay a ton of money to lease in a big buck county to kill doe only? It's not like the land owners are going to drop the price that year just to keep it leased. Plus have to drive half way across the state to do it. Especially when a non res Kansas lic/tag is $395 and your odds of killing a big buck there on public are better then here on private. Not to mention the places I hunt in kansas are closer than my lease here in Oklahoma.
Like i said, I know not everyone is like me or has the same situation. But you would be suprised at how many people would just jump ship for that 3rd year.

 

[okievarmint]

Getting everyone to participate statewide could be accomplished by regulation changes (which was the basis for this post anyway). Yeah, it would be danged unpopular, but so was doe harvest years ago, then people saw it worked.You asked, Why would anyone pay a ton of money to lease in a big buck county to kill doe only? Reasons? Because Doe-only would be for 1 year out of three. The quality and number of bucks would go up substantially; and very quickly. The buck-doe ratio is improved. It's a management tool. It works. I don't ask for anyone never to kill a buck again, just let 'em walk every third year. If someone were to say, "Well, I'm not going to hunt there this year!", It would accomplish the same thing that year: no buck. I believe most hunters would like to improve the quality of the herd and the harvest, such as more and bigger bucks, and would chose to participate. Not choosing to participate in selective harvest would be their perogative, but could be viewed as short-sighted and selfish. It doesn't have to be permanent. The number and size of bucks have increased so much here, I may skip the next Third-year cycle and allow bucks.

 

[AllOut]

I agree with you that if done correctly would make some sort of impact on our herd... More than likely a positive one.
What's funny and makes me kind of a hypocrite is that I'm giving you the same argument people give me when I tell them we need to drop to a one buck limit and move rifle out of the rut. That argument is that it won't go over well and would come with such adversity that it would never pass.
Now, I'm not looking for trophy management i am in fact all about herd management for the over all health of the herd. With that being said, I hunt for horns. Plain and simple. Now I do enjoying shooting doe and usually just do it for fun with my bow. But all the time, efftort, money and travel I put into deer hunting is about putting one on the wall. I do realize that mature and trophy sized buck are a buy product of a healthy herd so I am all for anything that helps even if I have to make sacrifices myself to get it. But that doesn't mean I can't go else where to do my hunting while the "non buck" year is on.
Now let's take your idea to the extreme and maybe speed things up. Instead of every 3 years why not just go 3 years straight of no bucks allowed? Then you would have those 2.5 y/o bucks now being 4.5, and ton of 3.5 and 2.5 y/o bucks. All the while we are massacring the doe. I mean if we are going to be met with adversity on your "every 3rd year" plan why not just go all out and get it done at once?

 

[AllOut]

.You asked, Why would anyone pay a ton of money to lease in a big buck county to kill doe only? Reasons? Because Doe-only would be for 1 year out of three. The quality and number of bucks would go up substantially; and very quickly. The buck-doe ratio is improved. It's a management tool. It works. s.

You missed one key point on that.
Big Buck Counties! They already have good bucks so there really isn't a need. That's the reason why the lease prices in those areas are way higher than anywhere else in the state. Its funny though cause they are also some of the hardest places in the state to find a lease. I've seen and know of guys who spend up to $10k or more a year on a their lease. Most guys in our state that have hunted a long time and have never got a shot at a 150" or bigger buck, a lot have never even seen one in person. I see probably 10 a year and on average at least one of us gets one every year (3guys). But like I said before, we are very lucky to be friends with guys in those areas and get to hunt pretty cheap. Now for those guys not so luck and pay $10k+ a year (who do it for pretty much one reason... Big bucks) that's a ton of money to spend every 3rd year just to help the herd in an area that doesn't need that kind of help. Sure our buck:doe could be better but that's about it.
For me the reason i would go out of state isnt about the $ for the lease, it's cause it's not worth the 3 hour drive to kill does knowing that if I have a 150"+ buck walk in bow range I can't kill it.

 

[fishfurlife]

and your odds of killing a big buck there on public are better then here on private.

I disagree with this statement in it's entirety and will leave it at that.

On a side note (I may be way behind on this but anyways) it is legal to use a silencer in Kansas now to hunt big game. I am not a fan of this at all.

 

[okievarmint]

Now let's take your idea to the extreme and maybe speed things up. Instead of every 3 years why not just go 3 years straight of no bucks allowed? Then you would have those 2.5 y/o bucks now being 4.5, and ton of 3.5 and 2.5 y/o bucks. All the while we are massacring the doe. I mean if we are going to be met with adversity on your "every 3rd year" plan why not just go all out and get it done at once?

No. I'm looking for balance in the herd, this would cause over-abundance of bucks. I hear a lot of 'What-ifs', but not from me. It works. One thing worth mentioning, on the years of buck harvest, there are no antler restrictions. Those that wish to take a fork-horn are welcome, as are those that wish to take a trophy-class buck. It's just now the choice of trophy-class is greater, and the wait shorter. I applauded when Oklahoma went to a 2 buck limit, because it accomplishes a lot of the same things as a 'Every 3rd year' plan. What about 'Big Buck Counties' you ask? Because they would become 'Bigger Buck Counties'.
This has been a great discussion.
One thing I thought would be a problem: I tried to get surrounding landowners to participate, but to no avail. They are of the 'If-it's Brown-it's-Down' mentality, but I went ahead, with the thought that it would make at least some difference. It has.
We are all different, with different thoughts and reasoning for hunting. But try skipping every third year killing a buck where you hunt. See if it doesn't make a difference. I hope that there are those that will.

 

[okievarmint]

Well congrats to your granddaughter that's a cool buck.

Thanks. Something neat about that buck; although it had a lot of stuff broke off, on the right side there is a cupped area larger than the palm of my hand. It could actually hold water!

 

[okievarmint]

I disagree with this statement in it's entirety and will leave it at that.

You are correct. A few landowner friends in Kansas (Garden City, Dodge City area in the west and Cherokee and Crawford County in the East) have told me the number and size of the bucks there have been on the decline the last few years. One of them (North of Liberal) has stated he will not lease for deer next year, only pheasant. I'm hoping he tries a 3rd yr harvest. My wife has family in Cherokee, Kansas and I go there and hunt quail on the walk in areas. A few of her kin have told me they did not even see a buck this year.

 

[r00s7a]

IMO, your 3rd year harvest will never fly. I'm not going to say it doesn't work, but I don't think it will ever happen. Just because it may work doesn't mean it is the right thing to do either. There are areas of the state that depend on hunting season to make money. Down here in Antlers, the local economy depends on the hunting season to make it through the year. Not necessarily with income from leases, but just out of area money flowing in from all of the people coming in to hunt. You kill that for even one year, and that is going to have a major impact on the economy. So while it may help with letting the bucks age another year, the results effect people that don't even hunt and that right there is enough to make me never support the idea, and I think all the people in this area at least would agree. We've already got some of the oldest deer in the state running the hills down here. I'll be damned if I ever support anyone telling me I can't hunt them. Just my 2 cents...