S&W M&P15 PS and PSX

[loslosbaby]

Hey guys...!

I have always had a gripe with the DI of typical AR's. Just couldn't hang. S&W has several weapons with piston systems in them.

Does anyone have any experience with them?

Thanks much in advance, and yeah, I just don't like DI. Never have. No insults intended!

G.

 

[eby42]

Haven't tried a piston-driven S&W, but I can wholeheartedly recommend the Sig 556, as I own the Classic model.

It is a bit outside of AR land, though, since it is based on the Swiss 55x series assault rifles rather than the m-16/m-4.

You've also got the new Ruger SR-556 to look at; it's been getting good reviews so far and is a real AR design.

One disadvantage, at least with the Sig, is that it is rather front-heavy. My arm and shoulders get a bit tired after a magazine or two standing. I'm not sure how true this is with the piston driven AR's, but the effect is probably at least present.

 

[ez bake]

Hey guys...!

I have always had a gripe with the DI of typical AR's. Just couldn't hang. S&W has several weapons with piston systems in them.

Does anyone have any experience with them?

Thanks much in advance, and yeah, I just don't like DI. Never have. No insults intended!

G.

Seems like everyone's getting into the Piston System these days. Any particular reason you don't like the DI system?

My only gripe about the piston is that there are several rail systems that won't fit on an AR once a piston system is installed. For what I do, I've never had the DI system on my AR fail (except for one time after shooting like 300-400rds of .22 through the CMMG kit - the first shot after was obviously attempting to go through a very choked out gas tube and lead to a half-ass extraction) so I guess I haven't had the need to upgrade.

 

[eby42]

Seems like everyone's getting into the Piston System these days. Any particular reason you don't like the DI system?

My only gripe about the piston is that there are several rail systems that won't fit on an AR once a piston system is installed. For what I do, I've never had the DI system on my AR fail (except for one time after shooting like 300-400rds of .22 through the CMMG kit - the first shot after was obviously attempting to go through a very choked out gas tube and lead to a half-ass extraction) so I guess I haven't had the need to upgrade.

I'm not really sure what the piston trend is about. It's really just "different" rather than "better".

The two genuine differences seem to be that it slightly changes recoil characteristics and keeps the chamber a bit cleaner (which doesn't even translate to reliability, necessarily).

But yeah, lots of AK/AR love children starting to appear on the market.

 

[Josh-L]

I don't believe they are available yet. Unless you are running a SBR with a can I see no reason to get a piston upper.

 

[loslosbaby]

Seems like everyone's getting into the Piston System these days. Any particular reason you don't like the DI system?

Its a philosophical thing. My Father used to be part of a gun shop that was, "different". In the 60's in Hollywood, it wasn't unusual for Sammy Davis Jr to walk in and say "I want to learn how to quick-draw" or for Elvis to walk in and say "I want one of these, can you order me five of them?" and point to a magazine article (run by the store) for mail-order Solothurn AT rifles.

There are certain realities...venting gas (corrosive nitrated salts and ionized carbon compounds) basically through your bolt, with its lube, springs, coatings and metal surfaces...just makes me puke. I am 42, and "AR" for someone my age 20 years ago was synonymous with "runs only with Govt. ammo when its clean, usually".

AR's have had a long and diseased history, with parts incompat. problems, metal problems, lube problems, gas tube problems, etc. etc. etc. while alllllll these other weapons we had in the shop just worked. Not that other systems are infallible... e.g. I've seen M1A's throw a winger every 10 rounds unless EVERYTHING was up-spec'd. HK91's are awesome as long as you don't mind throwing the brass away, cuz that HUGE extractor munches a tab outta the case rim. I had a couple Valmets (including the bullpup) that would only eat the under-spec-diameter govt. 5.56, and, cracked the (phenol) stocks.

Oh well.

I want stuff that goes bang. Something that I can get parts for, something that will be supported, that is in use by big-time users that wear stuff out. I want it to go bang, and I want it to extract, and, the very idea of having a modular (MagPul) grip that can hold another bolt isn't a bad idea, its just sad to need it.

My only gripe about the piston is that there are several rail systems that won't fit on an AR once a piston system is installed. For what I do, I've never had the DI system on my AR fail (except for one time after shooting like 300-400rds of .22 through the CMMG kit - the first shot after was obviously attempting to go through a very choked out gas tube and lead to a half-ass extraction) so I guess I haven't had the need to upgrade.

I plan (barring horrible reviews here and elsewhere) to grab the M&P15 PSX and use the for-end (Troy) they have.

I and many other "wood stock" guys have begrudgingly admitted that the AR is "here" now and "works".

"Only accurate rifles are interesting" well, let's add "...that go bang at least".

The AK is admirable in that way, but, as we well know, wasn't built to be accurate. A former Russian infantry officer laid it on me like this, "We didn't issue them singly, we didn't deploy them singly, so, why do they need to be built to high-specs when we have twenty 19-yr old conscripts sending 600 rounds downrange at you?"

Doctrine.

Yeah, so, the modularity, the accy's avail, its all good.

Years ago I despised "the space guns" and all the crap festooned onto them, now, I catch myself going "wow, that MagPul backup sight is pretty nice".

My rifles (going to get two and deck them out identical) will get:
- EOTech, one of the shorter ones
- EOTech flip-over 3x mag optical sight behind that
- MagPul MBUS sight behind that
- MagPul trigger guard extender (glove)
- MagPul grip with CR123 battery holder (for sight AND water purifier)
- Some kind of light (with IR mode)
- Panels on the forearm
- Possible longer LOP stock

"Beware of the guy that has one rifle, because he probably knows how to use it." I'm starting from scratch on the AR system, and it'll take a while to master it.

A big factor about deciding to get some kind of AR is being famililar with the system.

Thanks for the input so far!

G.

 

[mmchambers06]

My rifles (going to get two and deck them out identical)...

Why??! That's no fun.

 

[Spooln-Rex]

i can see your point on the DI system but to me its seems that all the issues these rifles had back then are now fixed and or information and better parts are becoming more available to make sure it goes bang every time. i love my dpms while some dont care for them i feel its a great rifle for the money and plan on keeping it for the years to come.

 

[fishn&huntn]

The gun was designed to use IMR 3031 not the dirty powder most companies use including the government.

 

[loslosbaby]

Why??! That's no fun.

Why? Because this is Oklahoma (Thank you Jesus!) and I can have one in the trunk all day long, anywhere I go!

I tell my CA buddies about that, and they say the same thing when I tell them I carry one (or sometimes two) J-Frame S&W pistols instead of what they would carry. They just can't believe that we can (legally, with a SDA permit) carry whatever we want, south of 50 caliber

See, in CA, its all abstract, its just an excercise. Guys talk about what they would carry, if they could, but unless you're a copper, you don't know anyone south of Patrick Swayze that has a carry permit. When I tell my CA buddies I got tired of carrying my glock around, that it was making my swim trunks sag, they think (like you might) that I'm nuts.

Two 340PD's works just fine!

They nag, they cajole, back-bite, etc....but, they're just gun storers not gun carriers.

I thank God almost daily I'm in OK now.

G.