so i bought something through private sale..

[Rod Snell]

Here are the guidelines, which clearly distinguish between "required" and "recommended."
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-21.pdf

Note the law is an unlicensed person may not transfer a firearm directly to a person in another state, not specified HOW to determine.
The recommended way is to examine ID. It would be an affirmative defense to an illegal sale if fake ID were shown to you.

As to sting operations, they often result in many charges, including multiple sales without an FFL, selling to (they believe) ineligible people, and various other violations.
Here's one: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2010/02/021110-chi-undercover-shops-attract-sales.html
Note the number of charges of multiple sales without a license ("Undocumented dealers?")

Here's a NJ man who bought firearms in PA through private sales illegally and resold them.
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...nty-nj-man-admit-illegal-sale-of-14-guns.html

Here's a plea deal on illegal possession for a man in Portland, ME. He was initially caught because he did an illegal sale to a man in New York, and the gun was later used in a crime.
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...-man-sentenced-on-federal-firearm-charge.html

The claim that "no one is arrested for illegal private sales" is just not so. They are listed on the ATF web site. Often the initial contact brings an investigation and results in being charged for dealing without a license for repeated buying and selling. As I said, the catch rate is estimated to be about 0.3%, so if you want to play it fast and loose, be my guest. It is also documented that a man in Maine wrote down the name, DL number, and truck license of a man who bought a handgun from him, and when the ATF showed up with his handgun serial, that had been used in a Boston, MA murder, they took the information and caught the gun runner. Which guy do you want to be?

 

[pritch]

Ideology like this is one of the reasons we keep losing rights, a little bit at a time.

Let me get this right. . . I suggest visually checking ID as a safety measure and I'm promoting the erosion of our rights?!? I guess if you carelessly put a firearm into the wrong hands, that is subsequently used to harm others, you'll see that as an act of patriotism and a positive for our gun rights.

 

[JaredC]

None of the links or cases you posted have anything at all to do with a private party selling a used gun within his state of residence. No is arguing illegal after market sale donts happen, or that they are not prosecuted.

Although I only briefly read each case, I would say they are all good and justified arrests.

But again Ill ask, please show me one time where someone was prosecuted for a private party sell, in his home state for not checking the buyers ID.




The above is clipped from your article you attached. Thanks for making my point.
/thread

 

[JaredC]

Let me get this right. . . I suggest visually checking ID as a safety measure and I'm promoting the erosion of our rights?!?

Lol...no this quote does though:

Don't like the terms, renegotiate them or don't do the deal. Good luck explaining to a jury that your anonymous firearm transaction met the Reasonable and Prudent Person standard.

The fact that 1. You think you can tell if you are selling or not selling to a competent person by checking IDs.
2. You are willing to support whats already required by law to sell a gun.

Will not be infringed upon, means just that. There are no asterisks or small print. Even just a small erosion of a right, is still an erosion. The fact that you, as a private citizen, are willing to require even more red tape than is required by law, in my opinion, tells me you are ok with that erosion. Even if the red tape is something in your mind as small as asking for ID, its still red tape.

 

[AKguy1985]

I dont ask to see anybodys ID, esp off here when selling a gun. And i dont want somebody whipping out their I-phone taking a picture of my DL either.

 

[technetium-99m]

I have walked and will continue to walk if a seller asks to see any more than a cursory glance at my DL. I absolutely refuse to deal with people who require a carry permit as a condition.

Rod, you taught my Utah permit class, and I absolutely respect your knowledge on the subject. But those links are far removed from what we are talking about here. I mean in one case the guy had obtained a DL illegally, ground off the serial numbers of a number of firearms, and then gave them to a known felon relative for the agreed upon purpose of resale. Another is a shop that was both dealing in guns and drugs. The last case is the most applicable but the person selling the gun was a felon and it seems that he sold the gun to a person he knew lived in another state. There is no mention of what happened to the party that initially sold the gun to the felon, which looking at a DL will never tell you.

If you know of a case where someone was arrested, charged, and convicted for selling a gun under completely normal circumstances please post it up. I've never seen evidence of one, and I've never seen evidence that someone's un notarized bill of sale kept them out of jail. But I really am open to hearing about such an occurrence.

 

[Mr10mm]

Here are the guidelines, bla bla bla Which guy do you want to be?

I know this one, the ATF guy?

 

[JaredC]

If you know of a case where someone was arrested, charged, and convicted for selling a gun under completely normal circumstances please post it up.

A case doesn't exist, unless in a state that enforces a law more strict than what the federal law is. In the ATF document he posted his self it states quite simply that fact. Ill repost the very clear statement from that article again.....


View attachment 37526
View attachment 37527

 

[JD8]

Let me get this right. . . I suggest visually checking ID as a safety measure and I'm promoting the erosion of our rights?!? I guess if you carelessly put a firearm into the wrong hands, that is subsequently used to harm others, you'll see that as an act of patriotism and a positive for our gun rights.

How does checking an ID prove anything in terms of whether or not someone will cause harm with a firearm?

 

[Mr10mm]

Just think if someone would have checked today's Ft hood shooter's ID this would have never happened. I bet he didn't have an ID.