Trump to halt 'massive' ObamaCare subsidies

[John6185]

Government run health are is not on to work, I it is already failing and billions are pumped into it annually to keep it afloat and to fund Obama's pet social program. From the US Postal Service, Veterans Adminstration, Medicare, Food Stamps, Medicaid and you name it, it's corrupt and cannot function without billions of taxpayer dollars continually being funneled to keep these programs going. Free enterprise and competitive keeps telling costs down, when the government runs things it is aways costly because of the any departmentsuggestions and department heads needed to oversee the programs and that doesn't include lawyers to prosecute fraud.

 

[JD8]

I'm in the learned and accredited world, little guy. Part of my job, now, is determining the best-practices and -standards for scientific training, criteria, and accreditation. Let me know if you'd like a lesson because you certainly need one.

Same old story, same old arguments, different day. Do you have any evidence to refute what we (i.e., the vast majority of the entire world) knows about universal health-care systems, or not? You can yell "I don't trust the government to do it" as much as you'd like, but that does nothing. Regardless, universal health-care is coming, sooner or later. It's not a matter of if, but when.

Exposing SJWs...lmfao!

I figured you'd have no response to the innovation comment. How could you? There's some fascinating things going on the health industry right now, and it's not coming out of Canada and the U.K.

As far as being in the accredited world? Really? We had no idea, I must've missed it the 9832981 other times you've mentioned it. lol No lesson needed, you're johnny come lately at this and you've deemed yourself some wannabe intellectual and all knowing, people like you are old hat to people like me. Don't get me wrong it's cute, but obviously you can't see past your narrative and apply logic.

I agree on the same old arguments, different day. Do I have any evidence? Sure, I can access several government programs that are extremely inefficient, JUST within the United States, nevermind going all over the world and NOT cherry picking the best of universal healthcare examples. It doesn't really matter because the question is how would the United States execute such a plan? You believe somehow that it would be wonderful, I'm on reality and history's side of the .gov fawking up a wet dream. I can tell you Vermont tried single payer and it collapsed nearly immediately. I can tell you that people like you made all sorts of promises with Obamacare and look how it's turned out. Again, the VA is a joke but somehow magically, that will all go away in your world. But where's your evidence? Looking to Canada and other countries of the like doesn't work. Doesn't work in gun policy because it's not a direct comparison. Why does it all of the sudden work in healthcare in your mind? The demographics , the healthcare systems and infrastructure, economy, and especially the government are completely different.

As far as universal health care coming? We will see, we won't get there with economic geniuses such as Bernie putting their best foot forward.


So you can yell.... "I want the government to take care of me" all you like but I'll take reality, common sense, and logic over any whatever coulda, shoulda, woulda study or paper you want to reference. You see I haven't forgotten all the broken promises politicians and .gov have made.

 

[YukonGlocker]

I figured you'd have no response to the innovation comment. How could you? There's some fascinating things going on the health industry right now, and it's not coming out of Canada and the U.K.

It would be ridiculous to think the US has innovated in health-care, and everyone else hasn't...because that wouldn't be true. That's why it's a non-starter.

As far as being in the accredited world? Really? We had no idea, I must've missed it the 9832981 other times you've mentioned it. lol No lesson needed, you're johnny come lately at this and you've deemed yourself some wannabe intellectual and all knowing, people like you are old hat to people like me. Don't get me wrong it's cute, but obviously you can't see past your narrative and apply logic.

I'm quite comfortable with my day job...love it actually. OSA isn't the place I go to do more "work" (i.e., solving problems in the real-world, engaging in scholarship, doing science, etc.). It's the place I go to relax and enjoy some friendly conversation outside of work. You'd be gravely mistaken if you think my casual nature on OSA represents what I do at work.

I agree on the same old arguments, different day. Do I have any evidence? Sure, I can access several government programs that are extremely inefficient, JUST within the United States, nevermind going all over the world and NOT cherry picking the best of universal healthcare examples. It doesn't really matter because the question is how would the United States execute such a plan? You believe somehow that it would be wonderful, I'm on reality and history's side of the .gov fawking up a wet dream. I can tell you Vermont tried single payer and it collapsed nearly immediately. I can tell you that people like you made all sorts of promises with Obamacare and look how it's turned out. Again, the VA is a joke but somehow magically, that will all go away in your world. But where's your evidence? Looking to Canada and other countries of the like doesn't work. Doesn't work in gun policy because it's not a direct comparison. Why does it all of the sudden work in healthcare in your mind? The demographics , the healthcare systems and infrastructure, economy, and especially the government are completely different.

As far as universal health care coming? We will see, we won't get there with economic geniuses such as Bernie putting their best foot forward.


So you can yell.... "I want the government to take care of me" all you like but I'll take reality, common sense, and logic over any whatever coulda, shoulda, woulda study or paper you want to reference. You see I haven't forgotten all the broken promises politicians and .gov have made.

Go ahead and show us the claims/promises I made about Obamacare (hint: there aren't any). I don't who you're referring to, but don't include me in groups I've never been in.

The cherry-picking goes both ways...for example, you ignoring the socialized programs in the US that work really well, ones that we're indeed world-leaders in...these do provide some background that our government can handle socialized programs in some cases.

All that being said, I don't think our disagreement is one about evidence. And I do respect and appreciate your perspective on the issue. It seems that the govt. has proven to you that it can't handle health-care and will only fawk it up worse...a perspective that I can relate to and appreciate. From my perspective, it seems the private-sector has proven that it can't handle health-care and will only fawk it up worse...and I'm past the point of continuing on in this way, and ready to give universal health-care a go because it's the only system, thus far, that has proven to be a viable alternative (and this is why it isn't "i want the govt. to take care of me"...at all).

 

[beast1989]

I dunno if I've ever known of anyone who has maxed out their medical deductible for the year but I managed to do it this year. I haven't paid for a pill, procedure or doctor's visit for the last 60 days or so, and I won't until January 1, 2018


I don't recommend it as a way of life but if you need to get some things done try and fall apart somewhere in between Jan 1 and Dec 31 of any given year. Lol

I maxed out in the first week of February due to a surgery I needed. I’ve been smooth sailing since then.

 

[alank2]

I have a simple question - it seems that problem with health care really is the costs rising. What was different now than in say, the 80's? We have regulation of other things in our capitalist system, why not regulate the prices of health to limit the sky rocket costs? It seems to me that there are circuit groups paying significantly for other certain groups who aren't paying at all...

 

[Chuckie]

Bullchit. It can happen and it's happening now even in this environment.

http://kfor.com/2013/07/08/okc-hospital-posting-surgery-prices-online/

These guy's prices blow everyone's out of the water. Imagine if there were 10 of these in every city.

That was four years ago according to the links posted and update, date.

 

[JD8]

That was four years ago according to the links posted and update, date.

A simple google search will show it's still there.. still going strong and still posting prices.

 

[JD8]

It would be ridiculous to think the US has innovated in health-care, and everyone else hasn't...because that wouldn't be true. That's why it's a non-starter.

Now THAT is some impressive strawman. What I said was the U.S. leads the world in innovation, even posted a link as such. This doesn't negate what other countries do, we just are the leaders in medical innovation, study, drug development, cures and nobel prize winners in physiology and medicine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Physiology_or_Medicine

As for the rest, most of those arguments you just made had nothing to do with what I said so I'll leave you with them. I will take note of one issue though.... what "socialized program" do you feel represents the governments ability to tackle healthcare for all it's citizens.

 

[deerwhacker444]

I will take note of one issue though.... what "socialized program" do you feel represents the governments ability to tackle healthcare for all it's citizens.

I'll save everybody some time and post up YukonCommunist's Favorite and most posted Go-To Bookmarks on the subject, because that's all your gonna get out of him anyways..

See, I do pay attention.

These links will help, for starters:
some basic info: https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/orange booklet-2014-final-pages.pdf
the House bill, which obviously isn't complete: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676/text
the Bernie proposal, similar to the House bill: https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

 

[SlugSlinger]

I have a simple question - it seems that problem with health care really is the costs rising. What was different now than in say, the 80's? We have regulation of other things in our capitalist system, why not regulate the prices of health to limit the sky rocket costs? It seems to me that there are circuit groups paying significantly for other certain groups who aren't paying at all...

When you limit prices for services, as was done with Obamacare, you lose providers. It is basic supply and demand principles. Less supply is equal to higher costs. My wife and I personally have multiple specialists that we used who quit practicing medicine. And a really good friend of my family while attending medical school decided to go into cosmetic surgery instead of reconstruction surgery directly due Obamacare and the amount of regulations, paperwork and frankly bureaucracy that is chocking that is now chocking the supply of doctors and service providers. Her father is a surgeon and I'm sure he gave guidance from his personal experience.

Trump is opening up the system to competition with his insurance interstate directive, and will let the market create a more efficient marketplace; even like the '80s, it was much more competitive than this debacle obama and the democrats created. The problem now is it will take some time because we probably lost 10 years worth of doctors because many quit their profession and other would-be doctors decided to go into a different profession.