Long video with some good tips for traveling with a firearm from someone that’s run into a few issues along the way.
TSA keeps cutting locks off firearms cases video by DeviantOllam
- Thread starter HiredHand
- Start Date
That's illegal AF to cut locks. lawyer time
So I suffered through that (including his excessive use of GD) and here's what I can tell you.
As a TSA employee (excluding FAMS/OLE) it is a violation of TSA policy to handle any firearm. They can inspect inside a case containing a firearm, but if the firearm needs to be moved or touched in any way, they will have to have either the passenger, an airline agent or LEO move the firearm to avoid violating policy. (airlines are not going to want their agents touching guns either, so realistically it's customer or LEO)
It is a violation of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR's) to require any passenger to show or demonstrate to an airline employee, that a declared firearm is unloaded or safe. It is also a violation of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations to mark any container accepted as checked baggage so as to indicate it contains a firearm. I'm not going into the specific citations because they don't apply to passengers OR TSA employees. They apply to FAA Part 121 Aircraft Operators.
We have a saying in the industry. "If you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport". There are approximately 440 federalized airports in the US and what works in one airport, might be physically and/or logistically impossible in another one. Just because the CFR's apply identically at all of them, how they get there may vary wildly. What this guy is saying about how to make sure your gun case gets on the plane may work. Or it may not because I guarantee you, he hasn't flown out of all 440 odd airports.
The aviation transportation system is designed to facilitate the safe, efficient transport of passengers and property. For the most part it's amazing at what it accomplishes on a daily basis. We all know it doesn't work well sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't work at all (9/11 being the prime example). In order to provide the most effective system possible, sometimes individual passenger needs are subordinate to the needs of the system, to the benefit of the greatest number of passengers possible. I say this because you need to be cognizant of your special needs and make plans to get them taken care of WITHOUT negatively impacting everyone else.
If you're like the guy in this video and everything you try to do seems to turn sour, my first recommendation is to arrive at the airport early enough to know you'll get them addressed with plenty of time to spare. What you can accomplish at SWO, LAW or XNA in a couple of minutes might take a half hour at OKC or TUL, or an hour and a half at a major Cat X airport.
You can ask for special handling or confirmations from airline agents or the TSA if you want, but as you can see from the video, your results will vary and at the end of the day any negative outcomes will invariably impact you more than anyone else. Using tact and diplomacy may help, but even that won't guarantee results. Having 600,000 aviation workers and 50,000 TSA employees dealing with an untold number of variables at hundreds of airports IS guaranteed to result in people doing the wrong thing here and there. It's unavoidable.
If you want to ensure the most likely positive outcome when travelling with a firearm:
Know the federal requirements: Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration
Know your airline's requirements, which may vary slightly from the regulations: (search your carrier's website for additional information)
Arrive early so you have plenty of time to declare and check your firearm(s)
Use quality hard-sided cases and locks (not chintzy "TSA locks")
Ask questions and if the agent doesn't seem to know the answers, ask for a lead, supervisor or if you're REALLY not getting anywhere, ask to speak with the Ground Security Coordinator of record for your flight. (that's the person who's ultimately responsible for ensuring all federal transportation security regulations (TSR's) are in compliance before departure of each flight)
Comply with all instructions given by your carrier and/or TSA, but document names, locations and TIMES of interactions and instructions you feel to be in error. (times are crucial for CCTV review, should you need to file any complaints)
Consider using air tags on your luggage AND your firearms cases if you're really worried about where your guns are at any point in time.
If you're curious what violating any TSR's can cost you (i.e. loaded/undeclared/improperly packaged firearms in checked luggage or weapons in your carry-on property), they're posted here: Civil Enforcement | Transportation Security Administration
Hope this helps!
As a TSA employee (excluding FAMS/OLE) it is a violation of TSA policy to handle any firearm. They can inspect inside a case containing a firearm, but if the firearm needs to be moved or touched in any way, they will have to have either the passenger, an airline agent or LEO move the firearm to avoid violating policy. (airlines are not going to want their agents touching guns either, so realistically it's customer or LEO)
It is a violation of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR's) to require any passenger to show or demonstrate to an airline employee, that a declared firearm is unloaded or safe. It is also a violation of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations to mark any container accepted as checked baggage so as to indicate it contains a firearm. I'm not going into the specific citations because they don't apply to passengers OR TSA employees. They apply to FAA Part 121 Aircraft Operators.
We have a saying in the industry. "If you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport". There are approximately 440 federalized airports in the US and what works in one airport, might be physically and/or logistically impossible in another one. Just because the CFR's apply identically at all of them, how they get there may vary wildly. What this guy is saying about how to make sure your gun case gets on the plane may work. Or it may not because I guarantee you, he hasn't flown out of all 440 odd airports.
The aviation transportation system is designed to facilitate the safe, efficient transport of passengers and property. For the most part it's amazing at what it accomplishes on a daily basis. We all know it doesn't work well sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't work at all (9/11 being the prime example). In order to provide the most effective system possible, sometimes individual passenger needs are subordinate to the needs of the system, to the benefit of the greatest number of passengers possible. I say this because you need to be cognizant of your special needs and make plans to get them taken care of WITHOUT negatively impacting everyone else.
If you're like the guy in this video and everything you try to do seems to turn sour, my first recommendation is to arrive at the airport early enough to know you'll get them addressed with plenty of time to spare. What you can accomplish at SWO, LAW or XNA in a couple of minutes might take a half hour at OKC or TUL, or an hour and a half at a major Cat X airport.
You can ask for special handling or confirmations from airline agents or the TSA if you want, but as you can see from the video, your results will vary and at the end of the day any negative outcomes will invariably impact you more than anyone else. Using tact and diplomacy may help, but even that won't guarantee results. Having 600,000 aviation workers and 50,000 TSA employees dealing with an untold number of variables at hundreds of airports IS guaranteed to result in people doing the wrong thing here and there. It's unavoidable.
If you want to ensure the most likely positive outcome when travelling with a firearm:
Know the federal requirements: Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration
Know your airline's requirements, which may vary slightly from the regulations: (search your carrier's website for additional information)
Arrive early so you have plenty of time to declare and check your firearm(s)
Use quality hard-sided cases and locks (not chintzy "TSA locks")
Ask questions and if the agent doesn't seem to know the answers, ask for a lead, supervisor or if you're REALLY not getting anywhere, ask to speak with the Ground Security Coordinator of record for your flight. (that's the person who's ultimately responsible for ensuring all federal transportation security regulations (TSR's) are in compliance before departure of each flight)
Comply with all instructions given by your carrier and/or TSA, but document names, locations and TIMES of interactions and instructions you feel to be in error. (times are crucial for CCTV review, should you need to file any complaints)
Consider using air tags on your luggage AND your firearms cases if you're really worried about where your guns are at any point in time.
If you're curious what violating any TSR's can cost you (i.e. loaded/undeclared/improperly packaged firearms in checked luggage or weapons in your carry-on property), they're posted here: Civil Enforcement | Transportation Security Administration
Hope this helps!
It's a violation of internal TSA SOP and obtaining legal counsel is highly unlikely to bear worthwhile fruit. If it happens to you, document, document, document and file a complaint at Complaint | Transportation Security Administration
They REALLY don't like your guns, magazines or ammunition. TSA failing to detect them prior to your departure will not help you, the State Dept. will be intensely disinterested in your plight and you're highly likely to get shaken down by the Mexican "justice" system. Ergo, NEVER use any bags or containers you EVER use to transport firearms or ammunition when you travel international. It's a recipe for disaster.
LOL....yeah, what's a lawyer going to do? File the complaint at an exorbitant rate on your behalf?
But yeah, Cayman is the same way. IIRC they fined someone several thousand over finding a single bullet in a checked bag a few years back. Lots of countries are quite strict and love American revenue.
I got this advice from Glocktogo several years ago. Been on many dozens of domestic flights while transporting firearms with only one airport in Denver ever causing an issue.So I suffered through that (including his excessive use of GD) and here's what I can tell you.
As a TSA employee (excluding FAMS/OLE) it is a violation of TSA policy to handle any firearm. They can inspect inside a case containing a firearm, but if the firearm needs to be moved or touched in any way, they will have to have either the passenger, an airline agent or LEO move the firearm to avoid violating policy. (airlines are not going to want their agents touching guns either, so realistically it's customer or LEO)
It is a violation of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR's) to require any passenger to show or demonstrate to an airline employee, that a declared firearm is unloaded or safe. It is also a violation of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations to mark any container accepted as checked baggage so as to indicate it contains a firearm. I'm not going into the specific citations because they don't apply to passengers OR TSA employees. They apply to FAA Part 121 Aircraft Operators.
We have a saying in the industry. "If you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport". There are approximately 440 federalized airports in the US and what works in one airport, might be physically and/or logistically impossible in another one. Just because the CFR's apply identically at all of them, how they get there may vary wildly. What this guy is saying about how to make sure your gun case gets on the plane may work. Or it may not because I guarantee you, he hasn't flown out of all 440 odd airports.
The aviation transportation system is designed to facilitate the safe, efficient transport of passengers and property. For the most part it's amazing at what it accomplishes on a daily basis. We all know it doesn't work well sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't work at all (9/11 being the prime example). In order to provide the most effective system possible, sometimes individual passenger needs are subordinate to the needs of the system, to the benefit of the greatest number of passengers possible. I say this because you need to be cognizant of your special needs and make plans to get them taken care of WITHOUT negatively impacting everyone else.
If you're like the guy in this video and everything you try to do seems to turn sour, my first recommendation is to arrive at the airport early enough to know you'll get them addressed with plenty of time to spare. What you can accomplish at SWO, LAW or XNA in a couple of minutes might take a half hour at OKC or TUL, or an hour and a half at a major Cat X airport.
You can ask for special handling or confirmations from airline agents or the TSA if you want, but as you can see from the video, your results will vary and at the end of the day any negative outcomes will invariably impact you more than anyone else. Using tact and diplomacy may help, but even that won't guarantee results. Having 600,000 aviation workers and 50,000 TSA employees dealing with an untold number of variables at hundreds of airports IS guaranteed to result in people doing the wrong thing here and there. It's unavoidable.
If you want to ensure the most likely positive outcome when travelling with a firearm:
Know the federal requirements: Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration
Know your airline's requirements, which may vary slightly from the regulations: (search your carrier's website for additional information)
Arrive early so you have plenty of time to declare and check your firearm(s)
Use quality hard-sided cases and locks (not chintzy "TSA locks")
Ask questions and if the agent doesn't seem to know the answers, ask for a lead, supervisor or if you're REALLY not getting anywhere, ask to speak with the Ground Security Coordinator of record for your flight. (that's the person who's ultimately responsible for ensuring all federal transportation security regulations (TSR's) are in compliance before departure of each flight)
Comply with all instructions given by your carrier and/or TSA, but document names, locations and TIMES of interactions and instructions you feel to be in error. (times are crucial for CCTV review, should you need to file any complaints)
Consider using air tags on your luggage AND your firearms cases if you're really worried about where your guns are at any point in time.
If you're curious what violating any TSR's can cost you (i.e. loaded/undeclared/improperly packaged firearms in checked luggage or weapons in your carry-on property), they're posted here: Civil Enforcement | Transportation Security Administration
Hope this helps!
When I declared firearms in the luggage to be checked both times, was pulled out of line by armed TSA agents and taken to a special inspection area.
I had to personally carry my bag. Then put it on a line outside the door of the inspection area where a TSA agent picked it. Up, put it on a conveyor, running a sniffer around the seam.
Satisfied it wasn’t something illegal, it was sent down the conveyor and we boarded.
Every other airport looks at the documents and we move along. Easy every where but Denver.
I don’t fly to NY with firearms as an exception.
When we walk across the border into Progresso Mexico, there is a billboard that says no firearms allowed, one bullet equals jail time.
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