Warrantless search - Rogers County

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Tinytim

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The smell of weed would pretty much give carte blanche to search, I'd think. Find something? Yep, smelled weed. Didn't find anything? Must have been in the wind, passing car or who knows. Which could certainly be legit, I smell it all the time driving around, walking/running, shopping and so on.

I wish they'd breed an odorless weed. Would be a big improvement for everybody.
Thx vapes
 

tweetr

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How old is your Son? If he’s 18 or older you’ll not get far, if he’s an adult and a parent wants to lodge a complaint, it’s hearsay, so the best course of action is to talk with your Son and see what he want to do.
Quite right. It's his case, not mine. I'm just gathering information and doing research in support. And the absence of any video recording is a serious impediment.

It is telling when one side in a dispute is eager to find video evidence, while the other side is notably evasive on the point. I imagine the Detective in the Lea stop rather wishes he had not been recording, though he referred to his body cam a number of times during the stop.
 

trekrok

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This traffic stop is illustrative, as many of the circumstances parallel the one I described.
Of note is the Detective's remark at 13:48:
"Why do you have, like, this negative view toward the police? What's the deal?"
- He asked of the young man he had just stopped, detained, cuffed, and searched without cause! The arrogance and utter lack of self-awareness are simply stunning.

My takeaway from this video is that it illustrates my statement above. The roadside is not the place to make your arguments. Has anyone seen where getting argumentative with the cop turned the encounter around? Did Mom showing up and getting aggressive help the situation?

The venue for 4th amendment arguments isn't roadside with a patrol cop. I agree that some policies need to be looked at and changed. But arguing and getting aggressive with a traffic cop isn't going to help anyone.
 

tweetr

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I want to play

View attachment 338191
When asking what " natural " Rights are absolute, are you referring to those Rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States? If so then the 2nd Amendment is not absolute in that, though the right to bear arms shall not be infringed, it IS limited. For example, even under the 2nd Amendment, one would not be allowed to own Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) such as Thermal Nuclear Weapons or Barometric type bombs. So in this sense, the 2nd Amendment is not absolute.

Another Amendment that is not an absolute is that of the 1st Amendment which set limits on the 'Freedom of Speech' such as one cannot legally goad someone into committing suicide, publicly defame another person, nor verbally incite a riot, to name a few possibilities. 'Freedom of Speech' under the 1st Amendment is, again, not absolute.
Well, actually you are misstating both those rights. We must accurately state them before we can evaluate absoluteness.

Yes, I am referring in this context to our Consitutional rights.
The Second Amendment right, stated in its essence, is to keep and bear arms. The protection given is "shall not be violated." The weapons you posit are not limited in the Second Amendment, which only specifies "arms." It does not in any way limit "arms." It does in the nominative absolute clause give more information that the "arms" in view are in fact military ("militia") arms. In that sense the nature of the "arms" is not limited as you posit.

The First Amendment right, stated in its essence, is "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech." The right is freedom of speech, while the protection is "Congress shall make no law." The prohibition against making law is in fact absolute with respect to abridging the freedom of speech. "No law" leaves no room for exception, Holmes' absurd reasoning in Schenk notwithstanding.

Which brings us to the subject of this thread, the Fourth Amendment.
Stated in its essence the right guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment is the right to be secure. The protection is "shall not be violated." For further understanding just fill in the blanks.
Whose right to be secure? "Of the people". That's easy enough. You are a person, I am a person, we are "the people."
To be secure against what? "Unreasonable search and seizure."
To be secure against unreasonable search of what? "In their persons, houses, papers, and effects." That's fairly well defined.
What defines the reasonability of a search? All following the comma after "shall not be violated."

"Shall not be violated" similarly leaves no wiggle room for exceptions in which one's right to be secure may be violated. Crucially, those exceptions must be satisfied in the Fourth Amendment itself to establish reasonablility of the search.
 

tweetr

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LOL go tell the TSA you have a 4th amendment right to not be searched and you have a ticket to board the plane. Millions are searched every year without warrant nor probable cause. Go tilt at that windmill awhile.....
That is a valid criticism of TSA procedures (with which I am naturally familiar.) If you are arguing that TSA procedures are right, then necessarily you are arguing that the Fourth Amendment is wrong. Is the TSA, an agency of the federal government, bound by the Fourth Amendment?
 

Tinytim

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So you can vape weed without an odor? If so, anyone driving around smoking pot should look into that.
Just remember if your high and driving, the clues will always betray you, and in the end you can be charged with DUID (driving under the influence of drugs= jail, losing you drivers license or at least suspension.
I was picking up pizza at a little Ceasurs, fella walks in higher than a kite , sucking on a vape, and shows me his vape and tells me it’s thc and no odor, I was shocked that people are walking around, or worse driving, getting stoned, right in front of us.
 

trekrok

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Just remember if your high and driving, the clues will always betray you, and in the end you can be charged with DUID (driving under the influence of drugs= jail, losing you drivers license or at least suspension.
I was picking up pizza at a little Ceasurs, fella walks in higher than a kite , sucking on a vape, and shows me his vape and tells me it’s thc and no odor, I was shocked that people are walking around, or worse driving, getting stoned, right in front of us.
Yeah, it was sort of a joke. Seems like the ability to determine if a driver is impaired by MJ is tough if they aren't crazy stoned.
 

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