Warrantless search - Rogers County

[TedKennedy]

Would there be less corrupt cops if every police officer, in every department, was paid over the top for what they do?

No, it's the sense of duty that attracts them.

 

[Snattlerake]

It's truly amazing that so many keep showing up for that thankless, underpaid job that is so dangerous. I'd encourage every LEO in the country to take a non-governmental job and let the public get along without you.

Ever since I have seen this picture it has been one of the most poignant that has ever been in my mind. That is why I saved it and use it sparingly because it presents the most bleak outlook for the deputy and his charge.
I sincerely pray this picture does not become the norm across this beautiful country I know and love.

 

[Bocephus123]

people trying their best to drive the great people who serve out!!! so when there is no law they certainly are not going to like the outcome of that!! good luck and respect the people who try to help!

 

[ef9turbo]

It's truly amazing that so many keep showing up for that thankless, underpaid job that is so dangerous. I'd encourage every LEO in the country to take a non-governmental job and let the public get along without you.

I took an early retirement for a reason. In my short 15 years I’ve seen it change dramatically. It doesn’t mean I don’t still want to serve because I’ve always had a servants heart.

If people truly knew my past and where I came from they’d understand why I did what I did. I’ve sent bad felons to prison and I can’t tell you how many times they’ve come out years later and thank me for changing their life. Not because of the arrest, but because of the way I treated them like a human being during our encounters.

 

[THAT Gurl]

I took an early retirement for a reason. In my short 15 years I’ve seen it change dramatically. It doesn’t mean I don’t still want to serve because I’ve always had a servants heart.

If people truly knew my past and where I came from they’d understand why I did what I did. I’ve sent bad felons to prison and I can’t tell you how many times they’ve come out years later and thank me for changing their life. Not because of the arrest, but because of the way I treated them like a human being during our encounters.

You remember the July 4th ride-along with Grumpy I posted about on the old OSA?? Remember how mad I was at him for treating drunk felons and mouthy 20-somethings who needed an ass-whipping better than he treats me?? Yeah ... It took me a little while to come to terms with that. A 30-something guy Grumpy had "interactions" with showed up at our front door one day (it bugs the **** outta me how easy it is for ANYONE to find our address but that's for another thread) to thank him for saving his life. And getting him turned in the right direction. I am absolutely positive it had a lot more to do with the way Scott treated him on the way to jail than it did with the fact he found himself at county that day.

As bad as we need good officers in this day and age, we (as a society) are completely oblivious to just how bad it's gonna be when all the good ones give up and go home. (I'm both glad and sorry to hear you are out. You are safer now. But the rest of us are not. And I don't blame you one bit for leaving when you did btw ...)

 

[tweetr]

CASE LAW as mentioned time and time again. I’m off to beat another dead horse.

The fact you see someone killing someone then run in a house… IS probable cause.

You must understand what you are arguing here: that case law is superior to the Constitution itself. It is not.
The illustration is in Article V: what power has the Judiciary to amend the Constitution itself? (None.)
What power has the Judiciary in Article III or Article I to make or to erase or to alter law? (None.)
Both of the above are expressly reserved to the legislatures.

Now: to what oath must any officer of the state swear? To the Consitutions of the United States and of Oklahoma? Or to case law?

OKLAHOMA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE XV - OATH OF OFFICE
Officers required to take oath or affirmation - Form. All public officers, before entering upon the duties of their offices, shall take and subscribe to the following oath or affirmation: "I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma, and that I will not, knowingly, receive, directly or indirectly, any money or other valuable thing, for the performance or nonperformance of any act or duty pertaining to my office, other than the compensation allowed by law; I further swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as _________ to the best of my ability."

Where do you see any reference to judicial decisions? The oath is to the respective consitutions directly. Such oath necessarily requires that all officers of the state understand that to which they swear, so that they accurately support, obey, and defend same.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

No one is naturally that obtuse. You must really have to work at it...

 

[tweetr]

I read maybe 30 pages of this. You keep asking for PC. PC for the stop was a third brake light, which is more common than you would ever think. If you’re that concerned and feel he was targeted, be like any smart lawyer and ask for an open records request of how many times that deputy conducted a traffic stop for a third brake like; I bet it’ll be a crap ton. Searching for a car that matches that of another, which committed a crime would not require PC, just reasonable suspicion. RS is only lawful until something is disproven and with what transpired, I would bet it was just another traffic stop.

You asked for PC to search the car. Free air sniff does not require anything to conduct and if the dog alerted on it, that’s PC to conduct a search. Every free air sniff that alerts, the handler will do a report on.

There’s no requirement to write paper for anything, it’s officers discretion. The stop happened, from what you admitted there was a third brake light out, lawfully. The search conducted, from an alert from a certified k9 (which you can get training docs and certs about) was a positive alert. That’s PC to get into that car. Your son being cuffed and detained is also legal as any lawyer will tell you. Can a search be done without cuffing someone? Sure, but again, up to the officer. No civil rights committed, solely based off what you said.

You pointed out the amount of deputies there. I would assume that he was traveling somewhere near Hwy 412/167, which is heavily worked by OHP and RCSO for traffic reasons. That would explain the amount of deputies there. Some counties will have 1-2 working the whole county, Rogers county will have anywhere from 5-7 working on shift. Tulsa county probably has 10-15 (I know it’s a different county). The point being is it’s not Washington county or other counties that have a low staffed shift.

I’m with others and will say that there are always bad cops, but based on the things you said, coming from both sides of civi(and in a not so pleasant way) and LE, nothing you explained seemed out of the ordinary, nothing unconstitutional or whatever else is claimed.

That is a reasoned reply, and exactly what I requested. Thanks!

I agree that a third brake light inoperative is probable cause to search the third brake light, for which no competent deputy needs a dog. How do we get from a third brake light to a dog?

 

[tweetr]

No one is naturally that obtuse. You must really have to work at it...

Is there a particular reason for you to be rude? To be insistent on principle is not to be obtuse.

 

[ef9turbo]

You remember the July 4th ride-along with Grumpy I posted about on the old OSA?? Remember how mad I was at him for treating drunk felons and mouthy 20-somethings who needed an ass-whipping better than he treats me?? Yeah ... It took me a little while to come to terms with that. A 30-something guy Grumpy had "interactions" with showed up at our front door one day (it bugs the **** outta me how easy it is for ANYONE to find our address but that's for another thread) to thank him for saving his life. And getting him turned in the right direction. I am absolutely positive it had a lot more to do with the way Scott treated him on the way to jail than it did with the fact he found himself at county that day.

As bad as we need good officers in this day and age, we (as a society) are completely oblivious to just how bad it's gonna be when all the good ones give up and go home. (I'm both glad and sorry to hear you are out. You are safer now. But the rest of us are not. And I don't blame you one bit for leaving when you did btw ...)

I do remember that… I’m out but I’m not safer by no means. I will probably get back into it, but I’m actually working on getting into it into the mental health field of it. I’ve found a new passion for that field. I’ve done more good with people in that area than I have the criminal side of things.

You’re right, we do need good officers these days. I’ve FTO’ed quite a few and trying to get them to understand the correct mindset is difficult. I was reprimanded for my ways of training new officers and was moved to teaching them mental health, tac med, and firearms. No more people interactions.