West Norman shooting yesterday; shooter was CLEET instructor

[dennishoddy]

" So what you're saying is that he just murdered a complete stranger in cold blood because he's a scared b*tch."

That is NOT what I said and you know it. I said that based on his training as a former police officer it is unlikely that he would have let the victim get close enough to start doing a 'beat-down' on him - the exact same way you, and most CC people, would probably do JEVapa! And I also said that [in other words] the victim, being a young stud, most likely jumped into action without thinking about the possible consequences.

As far as age goes, I believe that most people that are older (60+) are not "a scared b*tch" when it comes to a confrontation with a young person (as you seem to believe) but they ARE aware that they are no longer as quick in their reflexes and stamina as the younger person challenging them. That does not make them "scared" but it does make them more wary.

It also brings up Disparity of Force as a defense.

 

[dennishoddy]

He torpedoed his own self defense case because he couldn’t STFU

That and the pesky surveillance cam showing the kill shots.

 

[WoodsCraft]

It also brings up Disparity of Force as a defense.

It does bring up one thing, the "CLEET instructor" based on what we know didn't engage the force continuum with presence before moving directly to lethal force ( the far end of the continuum ) . What I gathered was things seem to have started at empty hand control or limited force and went deadly.

 

[dennishoddy]

It does bring up one thing, the "CLEET instructor" based on what we know didn't engage the force continuum with presence before moving directly to lethal force ( the far end of the continuum ) . What I gathered was things seem to have started at empty hand control or limited force and went deadly.

We won’t know for sure till until all the facts come out.

 

[bobkhan]

Good thing this guy gets a trial with a jury of his peers as opposed to the gun forum kangaroo court….

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

Driving away from trouble seems to be the best option in most cases, but isn't always an option. I've had a road rager chase me before. I eventually got blocked by pedestrians, and I couldn't get away until I'd dealt with him temporarily. No gun with me at the time, or he would've been shot for sure. As it was....an open driver's door on a 92' Buick Le sabre is NOT something you wanna **** with, even with just a bump of the gas peddle. That tweaker went flying in front of 20-30 people, and nobody batted an eyelash at what I had done. It was obvious to everyone present that he was out of his gourd.

Yes there are always exceptions. I was referring more to the getting out of car to confront someone approach. It is not worth it. Since I choose to carry a weapon for self defense, I find it wise to avoid situations that may increase the likelihood of me having to use it. I know that is not always possible. It has however served me well.

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

Good thing this guy gets a trial with a jury of his peers as opposed to the gun forum kangaroo court….

Just like anyone else, he is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[WoodsCraft]

Good thing this guy gets a trial with a jury of his peers as opposed to the gun forum kangaroo court….

If he walks he has a very good criminal defense attorney. He wouldn't be in jail right now if Norman PD didn't have something to hold him on . Oklahoma Self Defense Statutes are stacked in the favor of the citizen. JMTC

 

[sh00ter]

Man , arrested, it's like the cops dont even care about the thin blue line flag sticker.

Well if he had been one of them he probably would be justified I'm sure.

Seriously though, tragedy...we'd all need to have seen it to know the right/wrongs but it would take a lot to justify it. If I were a 62yo man with health issues, I would not want to be expected to fist fight some 25yo stranger...even if I got out of the car, I have a right to get in or out...if the other guy was a stranger and had a stark physical advantage and attempted to attack, I would think a DA would go easier in that case...I agree he should not get out of the car if that is what he did, but I have seen arguments that didn't get physical, so he could make a case that he had no bad intentions I suppose...still, none of us would think we would shoot anyone who was unarmed. But imagine if you don't know what the other person is capable of nor do you know if they have a weapon, etc. These deals are so bad!

 

[Chuckie]

Just like anyone else, he is innocent until proven guilty.

'Playing the devils advocate here ' /putting on flame-suit/

If he is innocent until proven guilty then why wasn't he release immediately on his own recognizance rather than placed in jail? Is he a 'flight risk'? Did he threaten to end his time on Earth? Is there a lynch mob after him? Has the family of the deceased vowed revenge, so he needs to be protected? Did he threaten someone, so he needs to be locked-up until his trial?

It may have been true that at one time a person was considered to be 'innocent until proven guilty but our judicial system has evolved, and now the truth is that you are considered to be guilty, until proven innocent in a court of law.