What does the second ammendment mean to you?

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Where is your line on the 2A?

  • Sporting Purposes to include MGs and NFA items

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Everything but nukes

    Votes: 21 60.0%
  • SHALL NOT/Recreational Nukes

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • Sporting Purposes but feature bans (high cap mags, flash hiders, bayonet lugs, etc) are okay

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ban MGs/Suppressors but otherwise All Lawful Purposes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    35
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The Founding Father's intent was a very separate force from the federal military when they used the word militia. Additionally, the first half and the second half are not as linked as people think.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," is just a prefatory clause. It gives a context for the operative clause. It is just flavor to help the reader understand why the operative clause is being made. The operative clause is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". This is the only part of the phrase that matters or has any legal weight when analyzing the sentence structure.
Heller vs DC doesn't agree with you.
 
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Term limits prohibit electing a man that has served his time but proven himself a patriot.

Term limits (limits!) therefore restrict the freedom to vote for who you think is the best candidate.

We allow anyone with breath to vote, and the voters continue to vote in folks that promise everything. If we collectively can't control our politicians we deserve what we get.
Term limits are not allowed under our Constitution.
I don't think the poll had all the choices. One should have been this is the hill I'm willing to defend to the end.
 
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Seadog

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I think you and I pretty much agree that our right to bear arms is to protect us from a potentially tyrannical government. And I believe it does. The only place where we're perhaps a bit apart is "militia" and I'm not sure really how either of us could know without question what they meant by that. For me, I'm just not aware of any non-military "militias of the people" and the thought of that seems to make the sheep nervous so my explanation of "because the government has power so shall the people" tends to placate people in some cases. But you're right - the first line isn't really important. The real meat is in the second line.
The militia as the founders intended it is basically a call to arms. That is all men of fighting age 16 to 60 or something along those lines. May be 18-50 but it is specified. It is stated and there is no confusion as to what the militia was or is. Now I’ll be with my hands in the air. Couldn’t tell you were I read it. Probably the federalist papers somewhere. They go over a lot of topics from the Constitution specifically so there would be no question. Just like the definition of arms. “ every destructive device of war or the soldier is the birthright of the American”. Even states what you are supposed to show up with. A long arm, powder, ball, and a hatchet or sword. They didn’t provide weapons, you were expected to bring your own.
 
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As you're a professed libertarian, this comment contradicts what the libertarian conundrum calls out. You're sounding like a conservative with this comment.
A true libertarian would say any person has the right to get any job that's available.
Your comment puts you right dead center into the conservative platform.

Would they? What else would a "true Libertarian' say?

Some Libertarians would argue against borders as well.

Being an independent-thinking fellow, I can choose a position contrary to whatever party I'm assigned, I don't have to blindly follow a platform.

Let's be clear - I voluntarily choose to be this way, I haven't been drafted into one party or another.
 

AguaFriaRanger

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Would they? What else would a "true Libertarian' say?

Some Libertarians would argue against borders as well.

Being an independent-thinking fellow, I can choose a position contrary to whatever party I'm assigned, I don't have to blindly follow a platform.

Let's be clear - I voluntarily choose to be this way, I haven't been drafted into one party or another.
No!!! You can't have nuanced opinions! Tow the party line completely or don't have political opinions at all!

This sort of partisan thinking/"no true scotsman" mentality is why our republic is in the shape it's in. The party system in general seems like a mistake. I don't think it could be eliminated but one would hope there could be a system where a candidate would just run on their values and let their actions/statements dictate their voter base, not what color tie they wear.
 
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I think it's important to state, if no one has - the constitution is just a piece of paper. It's a piece of paper that acknowledges rights that should be *inherently* ours as humans / God-given. Keep this in mind when they try to twist or change the piece of paper - if it ceases to acknowledge your inherent rights, cease to acknowledge the piece of paper. My rights are my rights.
 

Ahall

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The supreme court has issued some fairly strong opinions on this topic.
Its been a while since I read one.
As best I recall, about 15 or 20 years ago.
It was back in the days when every gun had to have a gun lock included with it if it was sold new.

As I recall, the case was about a court bailiff in Washington DC that used a personal firearm to defend himself in an off duty situation in his home.
At the time DC required personal firearms to be stored unloaded and locked, but his was not prior to having to defend himself.

A court officer allowed by the state to openly carry a gun in a court house, and he was charged for having an unlocked loaded gun in his home. Legal possession of the gun was not an issue. The situation was discovered when he used the gun in self defense. The NRA wanted a case like it, and helped drive it to the supreme court.

The court affirmed the second amendment is an individual right, not the right of the state or of a local government.
The court said clause regarding a militia is an example of how the right can be used, but did not limit an individuals right or require them to be part of an recognized group. The same ruling also stated that we have a right to defend ourselves and that a firearm is a legitimate means of defending ourselves.

I wish I could remember the exact citation, but both the majority and minority opinions were well thought out and worth reading. Its some of the most well considered logic on what the second amendment means I have ever read. Its also written by the people who have the authority to interpret it.

Read the real thing, not the soundbites and quotes out of context put forward by spin doctors on both sides of the question.
 
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I think it's important to state, if no one has - the constitution is just a piece of paper. It's a piece of paper that acknowledges rights that should be *inherently* ours as humans / God-given. Keep this in mind when they try to twist or change the piece of paper - if it ceases to acknowledge your inherent rights, cease to acknowledge the piece of paper. My rights are my rights.
Replace "should be" with "are" and I'm with you.

And yes, even without the Second Amendment to protect our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, we still do and always will have that right.

Woody
 

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