What happens when you buy a gun

[O4L]

I posted this as a comment deep in another thread, but I thought it might be nice to post for more to see. As an FFL dealer and gun shop owner this is what happens when you buy a gun from a dealer and WHO KNOWS WHAT.

When you purchase a gun from an FFL dealer you will fill out an ATF form 4473. This form has all of your information as well as the information of the gun (manufacturer, type, caliber, SN). This form is NOT transmitted to the ATF in any way, but is held in the FFL’s records indefinitely. Only if the FFL closes, loses their license, or dies do these forms go to the ATF. So at this point ONLY you and the FFL know what you are buying.

Next, we submit a NICS background check to the FBI. This can be done either by computer or by phone. During this step we give them your information including name, birthdate, state of residence, state of birth, height, weight, gender, ethnicity, citizenship, SS# (which is optional), and DL#. We also tell them what the check is for…sale of LONG GUN, sale of HANDGUN, sale of OTHER…but NO information about the gun is provided. We receive an answer of PROCEED, DELAY, or DENY. If we receive a proceed we finish the transaction and you leave with the gun. If we receive a delay we wait, sometimes 15 minutes, sometimes days. If we receive a response from the FBI to proceed then we do, but if no response is recieved within 3 business days we can transfer the gun as if there was a proceed. If there is a deny, you don’t get the gun, period. So at this point the FBI knows you are buying a gun, but they have NO knowledge of manufacturer, caliber, or SN, only if it’s a handgun, long gun, or other.

Now, if you purchase two or more HANDGUNS in a 5 day period we have to send a form to the ATF with your info AND the firearms info, so NOW the ATF knows ALL of the information on what guns you have purchased. A copy of the form is also sent to the local Sherriff or head LEO in your county, so he also knows you’ve purchased two or more handguns and all of their info.

So in conclusion, after you buy a handgun, rifle, shotgun, other, or multiple rifles, shotguns or others, the ATF knows NOTHING and FBI only knows you bought a gun. Now if you buy multiple handguns the ATF knows everything.

Since there is no record or database on private sales, the FEDS will have no idea what guns you might have bought or sold to private parties.

At ANY time the ATF can look at our records and see what and to whom every gun we’ve sold. This is how they trace SN’s to solve crimes. Even on regular inspections the ATF doesn’t leave with your info.

I did not know about the part in bold. Thanks for the info.

 

[HFS]

Layers of tinfoil in place.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

Red Dawn? That was a small rural town. Do you really believe they were able to get all the guns by looking at 4473s? They’ll be mightily surprised if they were to try that in Okarche, or Newcastle, or Muskogee, or even OKC.

 

[HFS]

Red Dawn? That was a small rural town. Do you really believe they were able to get all the guns by looking at 4473s? They’ll be mightily surprised if they were to try that in Okarche, or Newcastle, or Muskogee, or even OKC.

They wouldn't have to go after the guns in 2022.
All they would have to do today would be
1) kill cable TV
2) take the vaping liquids off the shelves

A lot of places in America would be a pushover by nightfall.

 

[2AFarmer]

Now, if you purchase two or more HANDGUNS in a 5 day period we have to send a form to the ATF with your info AND the firearms info, so NOW the ATF knows ALL of the information on what guns you have purchased.

So I could buy 30 rifles and a handgun in one transaction but as long as I don’t buy another handgun within 5 days no extra forums will be submitted to the ATF?

 

[PBramble]

Gun purchase glitch raises questions: Del.’s small-arms advocates shocked over DSP recordkeeping | GOA

Gun purchase glitch raises questions: Del.’s small-arms advocates shocked over DSP recordkeeping By Lee Williams October 28, 2008 Delaware State Police stopped Alvina Vansickle from purchasing a .22-caliber pistol for self-defense because she was too old and a woman, said Superintendent Col...

www.gunowners.org

******** there's always a list

 

[BobbyV]

So I could buy 30 rifles and a handgun in one transaction but as long as I don’t buy another handgun within 5 days no extra forums will be submitted to the ATF?

I'm only aware of the reports required for multiple pistol purchases with that time frame, but there is an ATF Q&A document that seems to indicate certain rifles must be reported as well in certain states.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/guide/qas-report-multiple-sale-or-other-disposition-certain-rifles/download

 

[HiredHand]

The irony that many of us proudly display and talk openly about being firearms owners and what guns we own, but we’re concerned that the gov’t might compile a list of 300-500 million firearms with names attached, and then proceed to go door to door to collect those guns. It really goes to show how few of us understand databases and how frequently and easily those databases hold inaccurate information. Most of the data that would be in a database would be useless because people will have died, moved, or sold those guns.

 

[Deleted member 47532]

I posted this as a comment deep in another thread, but I thought it might be nice to post for more to see. As an FFL dealer and gun shop owner this is what happens when you buy a gun from a dealer and WHO KNOWS WHAT.

When you purchase a gun from an FFL dealer you will fill out an ATF form 4473. This form has all of your information as well as the information of the gun (manufacturer, type, caliber, SN). This form is NOT transmitted to the ATF in any way, but is held in the FFL’s records indefinitely. Only if the FFL closes, loses their license, or dies do these forms go to the ATF. So at this point ONLY you and the FFL know what you are buying.

Next, we submit a NICS background check to the FBI. This can be done either by computer or by phone. During this step we give them your information including name, birthdate, state of residence, state of birth, height, weight, gender, ethnicity, citizenship, SS# (which is optional), and DL#. We also tell them what the check is for…sale of LONG GUN, sale of HANDGUN, sale of OTHER…but NO information about the gun is provided. We receive an answer of PROCEED, DELAY, or DENY. If we receive a proceed we finish the transaction and you leave with the gun. If we receive a delay we wait, sometimes 15 minutes, sometimes days. If we receive a response from the FBI to proceed then we do, but if no response is recieved within 3 business days we can transfer the gun as if there was a proceed. If there is a deny, you don’t get the gun, period. So at this point the FBI knows you are buying a gun, but they have NO knowledge of manufacturer, caliber, or SN, only if it’s a handgun, long gun, or other.

Now, if you purchase two or more HANDGUNS in a 5 day period we have to send a form to the ATF with your info AND the firearms info, so NOW the ATF knows ALL of the information on what guns you have purchased. A copy of the form is also sent to the local Sherriff or head LEO in your county, so he also knows you’ve purchased two or more handguns and all of their info.

So in conclusion, after you buy a handgun, rifle, shotgun, other, or multiple rifles, shotguns or others, the ATF knows NOTHING and FBI only knows you bought a gun. Now if you buy multiple handguns the ATF knows everything.

Since there is no record or database on private sales, the FEDS will have no idea what guns you might have bought or sold to private parties.

At ANY time the ATF can look at our records and see what and to whom every gun we’ve sold. This is how they trace SN’s to solve crimes. Even on regular inspections the ATF doesn’t leave with your info.

Thanks for the info.

 

[harley128]

Gun purchase glitch raises questions: Del.’s small-arms advocates shocked over DSP recordkeeping | GOA

Gun purchase glitch raises questions: Del.’s small-arms advocates shocked over DSP recordkeeping By Lee Williams October 28, 2008 Delaware State Police stopped Alvina Vansickle from purchasing a .22-caliber pistol for self-defense because she was too old and a woman, said Superintendent Col...

www.gunowners.org

******** there's always a list

there's always the outlier that doesn't follow the law