What Should A Person Do Here?

[338Shooter]

You try to tell the police, but they interrupt you? What do you do in a situation being verbally abused like that? I think the guy did very well keeping his composure during the officer's tirade. I hope I am never in this situation. Very scary stuff.

I'm thankful for all of our good officers out there and I hope you good ones would have the courage to call this guy down on a traffic stop.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/07/22/i-should-blast-you-in-the-mout

A reader points out a police dashboard video posted by Ohioans for Concealed Carry that vividly illustrates some of the problems with the state's requirement that people with carry permits "promptly" announce that they have a weapon if they are stopped by a cop. In this case, two officers in Canton pull up behind a car to investigate what they think is solicitation of a prostitute. The driver, William E. Bartlett, repeatedly attempts to notify them that he is legally carrying a handgun, holding out his permit for them to see, and he is repeatedly silenced or interrupted. When Bartlett finally is able to say "I have a CCW," the officer near him, Patrolman Daniel Harless, panics, grabs the gun, and goes off on an extended, adrenaline-fueled, profanity-filled tirade that must be heard to be believed, telling the disarmed, handcuffed man that his failure to promptly report the gun shows he is too stupid and irresponsible to have a CCW permit and would have justified a swiftly administered death penalty:

I should blast you in the mouth right now....I'm close to caving in your head....I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40, and just put 10 bullets in your ass and let you drop. And I wouldn't have lost any sleep. Do you understand me? He [his partner] would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you're stupid.

In the most comical moment, Harless expresses doubt that Bartlett, who has been holding out his CCW permit for the officers to see since he was stopped, has a permit at all. He goes scrounging through Bartlett's personal effects and car, looking for the permit, which Bartlett is still holding in his hand as he sits handcuffed in the police cruiser.

According to an update added today, "Canton Police announced Thursday that the officer was relieved of all duties in June following an internal investigation complaint filed in this matter." Even if we assume/pray that Harless is unusually hotheaded, the encounter, which occurred on June 8, shows how difficult it can be to comply with the CCW notification requirement, which is in any event open to interpretation. (How prompt is "prompt"?) Ohioans for Concealed Carry argues that the rule, violation of which can result in arrest and loss of the permit, "has substantial 1st, 4th, and 5th amendment problems."

Since 2000, The Canton Repository reports, the police department's internal affairs unit has investigated 16 complaints against Harless, a former Marine and Ohio native who came to Canton in 1996 after working as a police officer in Virginia for four years. "Obviously," says Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen's Association, "whatever transpired on that video is an isolated incident."

http://ohioccw.org/201107214955/cantonpd.html

Shortly after HB12 became law in 2004, Ohioans for Concealed Carry began to hear horror stories about the way law enforcement had reacted during traffic stops. Motorcyclists were told to conceal their guns instead of carrying them openly (motorcycle open-carry then was required by law). Computers in some police departments generated a felony warrant indicator when processing a license plate linked to a Concealed Handgun License. This caused multiple police vehicles to converge on a licensee in order to perform a felony traffic stop.

Those days, for the most part, are behind us. They've been replaced with occasional stories of rogue cops who have abused the concealed carry law in one way or another. In 2006, Daniel Sayers was filling his gas tank and washing his windows at a gas station when someone called the police to report a "man with a gun" leaving the station. After minutes of dash camera footage showing a police cruiser hurtling through side streets and breakneck speeds, we watched as Sayers promptly pulled over thinking the cruiser was trying to pass him. Within seconds Sayers had an AR-15 pointed at him, accompanied by officers ordering him out of the car, despite a malfunction in his car windows and doors.

Police continually screamed orders at him. Sayers was eventually pulled from the car, handcuffed, and placed in the back of the cruiser. Later, he was charged with failure to inform police that he was armed and had a concealed handgun license. The fact is, Sayers was unable to notify.

The same events played out in Beachwood, Ohio when OFCC member Bryan Ledford was approached by an officer pointing a taser at him and ordering him to exit his vehicle. Every attempt Ledford made to communicate with the officer was met with a refusal to acknowledge Ledford's attempts to inform the officers of his handgun license. In Ledford's case, officers spent 30 minutes rummaging through his vehicle, without a warrant, looking for something with which to charge him, until it finally hit them: Charge him with failure to inform. They went to court insisting that 53 seconds had transpired between the time they engaged Ledford and the time he informed them, and that somehow this time frame justified arresting Ledford, putting him into jail, and charging him with a misdemeanor.

But none of this compares to the atrocity that took place on June 8, 2011 to a man named William who had obtained his concealed handgun license approximately one month earlier. Early that Wednesday morning, William pulled his car to the side of the road to let out two passengers, but only the female occupant managed to exit before the police pulled up and began screaming at all three parties. "Stay in that car, I'm not going to mess around," screamed one of the officers at the two people attempting to exit the vehicle. The driver and concealed handgun licensee, William, remained seated in his vehicle when an officer entered the rear of the vehicle.

William stated, "I have a concealed carry, and..." when he was abruptly told to shut up. Dash camera video footage shows the driver turning his head, and his voice can be heard, but the words are inaudible. A few minutes passed while the officer continued to berate the two passengers. He proceeded to the driver's side and tries to open the door but is delayed by a seat belt. ...people like you don't deserve to @#$%#$ move throughout public. Period!... William states "I have a conceal..." and the officer demands that he better tell the truth or else! This interruption causes William to "tell the truth" and his attempt to notify is interrupted. William exited the vehicle with his driver's license in the same hand as his concealed handgun license. He held it up for the officer to see, and the officer said, "Why are you having that?" This gave William the opportunity to say, "I have a CCW, and..." The officer then said, "Do you have a gun?" William answered yes, causing the officer to grab it from William's waist.

At this point, William was handcuffed and put into the police cruiser. The officer then started to berate William, stating: "I should blast you in the mouth right now ... I'm close to caving in your head." and "you're just a stupid human being!"

The remainder of the threats, including executing the licensee for "being stupid" must be seen in the video to be believed

 

[ldp4570]

This whole incident has been all over the web. The only thing I have to offer on this, is just like the driver maintain your composure, as much as that sucks, its really all you can do until you can talk to a supervisor, and or your lawyer.

 

[Biggsly]

The best thing is to put it on the net like this. Now we know what really happened. Without the video, we would never know. It is scary.

 

[338Shooter]

I think the driver should have notified earlier in the stop, especially when the officers were inside the passenger side of the car, but I can also see where the driver would be wanting to keep out of their way while they dealt with the other two people. IMO, it was a toss-up whether he should have notified then. It appears to me that he did try to notify the officer immediately at direct contact, but even then he was too belligerent to even realize the guy was trying to tell him.

 

[Glocktogo]

If he's a huge a-hole like the ex-officer in this case was, I think I'll lead with "I'm LEGALLY armed here!"

 

[HMFIC]

Thanks for posting. Pretty sad. Officers are human too and so there are certainly times when this could happen. I think if it were me, I wouldn't have said one more word to the officer after he threatened me other than "I wish to speak to a supervisor and my lawyer".

Seems like back east they've had problems with CCW, I'm glad that here we seem to have officers who are more understanding of the right to carry and don't behave this way.

 

[juscvin]

Id like to say that while yeah this Officer was WAY out of line nowhere near all of the blame goes to him. The guy who got arrested had plenty of chances to notify the secondary Officer and CHOSE not to do so. He was also in an area known for prostitution picking up a known prostitute and her pimp. And while I find this Officers actions to be terrible what I find worse is the Ohio for concealed carry group that made this video chose not to narrate the drivers speech when he was being questioned inside the vehicle which I find to be very suspicious and that they are using a horrible event to attempt to change a good law because they don't want to have to notify.

 

[Griffin]

That was an extremely tense video, I can't believe the level of disrespect the officer exhibited. While I understand the very real danger they could have been in if the driver had had harmful intent, I still don't think the actions of the officer were warranted. I have no idea what protocol is, but it seems to me that questioning the driver is usually one of the first things supposed to be done, if the officer's had simply started there this entire ordeal could have been avoided. Also though I think the driver should have been more vocal about his handgun, it could have prevented the reaction. While it is easy for us to judge in hindsight what should have been done, it is clear that things could have gone much worse.

Despite the gross misconduct on the officer's part, I feel sorry for him, it is seems from the video that his anger came from the fear what of what could have happened if the driver had deployed is weapon. The officers were so intent on dominating the passengers and arresting the "prostitute" that they failed to secure the driver.

The way this could have been avoiding on the driver's part is by practicing proper situational awareness, that is why it is so important where you go, how you act, and who you keep company with. The only thing we can control is our own actions, hopefully none of us will be put in that position.

Out of curiosity how legal was that detainment and search? What was their PC?

Chris Griffin

 

[twoguns?]

Well now ..Aint that just a Daisy...no matter what he did he was already ...Guilty.
How about ..."No you shut the @#$% up I got a Gun" Hmmm ...not quite right either.
People have Bad days ....the Trained should be able to ..Not spread the Bad.
Alleged prostitutin...Wrong place Wrong time...You betcha....he had a legal Right to be there!
Hope ALL can learn something from this..Sad situation
ldp...Ill take your advice...Thank You

 

[Michael Brown]

This video has been posted here several times already and each time, it has been locked because of unproductive comments.

I will leave this oepn with the following caveats:

1) This thread will remain open ONLY to discuss how the citizen could have informed or handled the situation when abruptly told to shut up. We can all agree the officer was wrong and shouldn't be a police officer so any comments regarding that will be deleted and the poster will be suspended.

2) If the victim on the video wishes to take legal action against the department, that is his right. None of us here were the victim and none one here appears to know the victim so comments advising that he take legal action will be deleted and the poster will be suspended.

There will be no further warnings on this so if you ignore this post, simply expect your posting privileges to be suspended.

Carry on...........

Michael Brown