What Should A Person Do Here?

[338Shooter]

Thank you for understanding the intent of the thread michael. I think we can all learn something from discussing this from this perspective. Clearly the officer had issues but that not really even worth talking about past he as an individual is an idiot. I want to see insight on how we can handle a situation like this from our side of the door.


My feeling is once the situation got crazy (after the officer found out about the gun) there was nothing that could be said. Seems to me like it was a good time to invoke the right to silence and ask for an attorney.

Do you think such a move would have negatively affected the situation further?

 

[Griffin]

Could someone explain if or how the officers were justified in their search of the vehicle? It seems like they pulled up, asked for the passengers names, then I assume they frisked them (although the camera wasn't at the right angle to view them doing so), then the officers proceeded directly to search the vehicle.
Was the mere fact that they were stopped in a shady part of town RS to detain them? And how did that RS jump to PC to search the vehicle? How legal was the entire stop?

Besides having to present identification none of the people in the vehicle were obligated to do anything else were they?

What would have been the outcome had all parties remained silent?

Also, I would be most grateful if any LE here could briefly outline the proper procedure to how this should have been performed. I have never been in a traffic stop and my encounter with officers have always been outside any violation and just in chance meetings.

Thanks for clarifying this.

Chris Griffin

 

[Michael Brown]

Could someone explain if or how the officers were justified in their search of the vehicle? It seems like they pulled up, asked for the passengers names, then I assume they frisked them (although the camera wasn't at the right angle to view them doing so), then the officers proceeded directly to search the vehicle.
Was the mere fact that they were stopped in a shady part of town RS to detain them? And how did that RS jump to PC to search the vehicle? How legal was the entire stop?

Besides having to present identification none of the people in the vehicle were obligated to do anything else were they?

What would have been the outcome had all parties remained silent?

Also, I would be most grateful if any LE here could briefly outline the proper procedure to how this should have been performed. I have never been in a traffic stop and my encounter with officers have always been outside any violation and just in chance meetings.

Thanks for clarifying this.

Chris Griffin

We are not going to veer off in that direction this thread.

There are several threads in this sub-forum regarding how to interact with LE when carrying if you'll look around.

As far as justification of the stop goes, there are too many variables to intelligently discuss the validity of the search and neither officer has offered the rationale so we can't see what they saw and know what they thought, which is the justification of any law enforcement action.

Michael Brown

 

[NikatKimber]

<<<<<Not LEO.

If for whatever reason a LE Officer didn't approach my window in short order after pulling over, it would behoove me to say something to the effect of: "officer, I have something I need to inform you of." Maybe even have your CHL card out, in your hand, and in such a position that the officer would almost have to actively ignore it NOT to see it.

As the law reads, that is your duty, to inform the LEO upon contact.

 

[redmax51]

<<<<<Not LEO.

If for whatever reason a LE Officer didn't approach my window in short order after pulling over, it would behoove me to say something to the effect of: "officer, I have something I need to inform you of." Maybe even have your CHL card out, in your hand, and in such a position that the officer would almost have to actively ignore it NOT to see it.

As the law reads, that is your duty, to inform the LEO upon contact.

Actually I would refrain from moving around getting to your wallet.He might misinterpret what your movements( see "furtive movements") are and it could get ugly fast.Just keep your hands visible on the steering wheel and wait until he approaches you.Then you can make your calm announcement.

 

[RaysZ71]

What do I see in the video, officers not following procedure and clearing the car before doing a search. The driver has not been interviewed or searched but here is Barney searching the back seat, head down, he could have been shot and not even know it. Bottom line, the gun hole, power trip one shouldn't be an officer, needs some anger management, people skills and needs to learn more respect, the other cop should go back to the academy and do it over again. He doesn't take his life very seriously, they both acted like two young kids just out of the academy but worse. I've ran into quite few of them here in OKC. Few OKCP and some OHP. Very scary when that happens.

 

[HMFIC]

I would have definitely kept my hands on the wheel, but I would have also definitely tried very hard to speak to the officer and alert him.

I just don't know what you do when it starts going downhill that bad other than completely shut up and do everything you're told whether it's a violation of your rights or not. You can always sort it out later, but you put yourself in a bad and potentially undefendable position if you disobey a lawful order or show any form of resisting.

IMHO, people who behave the way this officer did are likely to only get worse unless you give them the feeling that they are completely in control. That would certainly be my goal in surviving the encounter intact both legally and physically.

 

[Griffin]

We are not going to veer off in that direction this thread.

There are several threads in this sub-forum regarding how to interact with LE when carrying if you'll look around.

As far as justification of the stop goes, there are too many variables to intelligently discuss the validity of the search and neither officer has offered the rationale so we can't see what they saw and know what they thought, which is the justification of any law enforcement action.

Michael Brown

Thanks for pointing that, I didn't intend to take the thread off topic...

If the driver had tried to reiterate that he was armed, defying the command to be quiet, would that have been in violation of "failure to comply"? From what I understand the order has to be lawful, so is it lawful to be ordered to remain silent in the scenario we have seen on the video?

Actually I would refrain from moving around getting to your wallet.He might misinterpret what your movements( see "furtive movements") are and it could get ugly fast.Just keep your hands visible on the steering wheel and wait until he approaches you.Then you can make your calm announcement.

That is in line with everything I have read, but since the first officer did not approach the driver for sometime that made it very difficult.

After watching the video a second time, it seems the first contact the driver had with the officers was probably when the second officer was searching the backseat. Is that when the driver should have informed them he was armed?

Chris Griffin

 

[Michael Brown]

What do I see in the video, officers not following procedure and clearing the car before doing a search. The driver has not been interviewed or searched but here is Barney searching the back seat, head down, he could have been shot and not even know it. Bottom line, the gun hole, power trip one shouldn't be an officer, needs some anger management, people skills and needs to learn more respect, the other cop should go back to the academy and do it over again. He doesn't take his life very seriously, they both acted like two young kids just out of the academy but worse. I've ran into quite few of them here in OKC. Few OKCP and some OHP. Very scary when that happens.

This is an example of not heeding a simple warning.

Michael Brown

 

[Michael Brown]

I would have definitely kept my hands on the wheel, but I would have also definitely tried very hard to speak to the officer and alert him.

I just don't know what you do when it starts going downhill that bad other than completely shut up and do everything you're told whether it's a violation of your rights or not. You can always sort it out later, but you put yourself in a bad and potentially undefendable position if you disobey a lawful order or show any form of resisting.

IMHO, people who behave the way this officer did are likely to only get worse unless you give them the feeling that they are completely in control. That would certainly be my goal in surviving the encounter intact both legally and physically.

This is EXCELLENT advice and exactly how I have handled it when dealing with an officer I felt was pushing the limit of his authority when I was in a palinclothes role.

Michael Brown