What's with all of the 9mm's for sale in the classifieds?

[dennishoddy]

I'm sure you know this as well as I do, but, for those who don't, here goes: After the shootout in Miami, when the FBI was looking to replace their "ineffective" 9mm service pistols, Smith & Wesson developed the 10mm. The FBI adopted it, only to find out later that some of their smaller statured officers could not shoot the 10mm round effectively. Smith & Wesson then went back to the drawing board, downsized the 10mm, and developed the .40 S&W cartridge from it (thus, the forty "short and weak" to fans of the 10mm). As for the reasons behind the popularity of the .40 S&W, the rest of your argument explains that quite well.

Amazing that the limp wristed defeated a great caliber. Shot the .40 for many years in USPSA competition. Still carry that caliber for SD with stouter loads. Ain't skeert of recoil.
My M&P with mag extension carries 21 rounds of .40 with one in the chamber. If it isn't over by then, someone is in trouble.

 

[dennishoddy]

Bunch of country's used the 380ACP in their military side arm. So I think there has been enough studies to say it is at least adequate. All the info I have studied and the arguments I have read on the subject just makes me want to practice to get the groups tight and where I point and hope like heck I never have to find out if all the practice mattered.

German General officers during WWII were offered the Bergman Einhand in .25acp as a last ditch weapon or suicide.

 

[RickN]

German General officers during WWII were offered the Bergman Einhand in .25acp as a last ditch weapon or suicide.

When NATO was deciding on a standard pistol round many European countries wanted the 380, the USA wanted the 45 and they compromised on the 9mm in use with some NATO countries already. It was easy to shoot so easier to train city kids who had never fired a gun before. Same reason the USA adopted the 5.56. Light, easy to shoot and did not scare the city kids.

 

[dennishoddy]

When NATO was deciding on a standard pistol round many European countries wanted the 380, the USA wanted the 45 and they compromised on the 9mm in use with some NATO countries already. It was easy to shoot so easier to train city kids who had never fired a gun before. Same reason the USA adopted the 5.56. Light, easy to shoot and did not scare the city kids.

9mm had been around since before WWII as a standard side arm caliber in the Luger as well as a submachine gun round in the MP-40 Schmeisser which was a very effective close quarters firearm, but not so much when in open territory.
It was in common usage throughout Europe.

 

[RickN]

9mm had been around since before WWII as a standard side arm caliber in the Luger as well as a submachine gun round in the MP-40 Schmeisser which was a very effective close quarters firearm, but not so much when in open territory.
It was in common usage throughout Europe.

True but many countries were also using the 32acp and the 380 in their sidearms.

 

[mightymouse]

True but many countries were also using the 32acp and the 380 in their sidearms.

Many German police units were armed with various .32 and .380acp Walther pistols until the early Seventies. The Munich Olympic massacre in '72 really opened their eyes (they were out-gunned by the terrorists) and was the impetus behind the search for a more effective police service cartridge. The HK P7 and the Sig-Sauer P5 (aka P225) both came out of the resultant pistol trials for a new service weapon in 9mm.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Amazing that the limp wristed defeated a great caliber. Shot the .40 for many years in USPSA competition. Still carry that caliber for SD with stouter loads. Ain't skeert of recoil.
My M&P with mag extension carries 21 rounds of .40 with one in the chamber. If it isn't over by then, someone is in trouble.

LoL! I used to work with an officer who said, "if I can't do the job with 15 rounds, I probably deserve to die."

Truth of the matter is, they'll all kill ya deader'n hell. All you gotta do is change the bad guy's mind. Most folks usually leave you alone when you start poking holes in 'em.

 

[Snattlerake]

LoL! I used to work with an officer who said, "if I can't do the job with 15 rounds, I probably deserve to die."

I have said that a few times but never seriously. That's why I carried a Para 45

Truth of the matter is, they'll all kill ya deader'n hell. All you gotta do is change the bad guy's mind. Most folks usually leave you alone when you start poking holes in 'em.

That was my understanding.

 

[TerryMiller]

LoL! I used to work with an officer who said, "if I can't do the job with 15 rounds, I probably deserve to die."

Truth of the matter is, they'll all kill ya deader'n hell. All you gotta do is change the bad guy's mind. Most folks usually leave you alone when you start poking holes in 'em.

That reminds me of this story:

Why One Cop Carries 145 Rounds of Ammo on the Job

I imagine many of you have seen or heard about this guy's story.

 

[trbii]

I’ve been told by at least two shooting class instructors, “all pistol calibers are weak”, “we carry pistols because they’re lighter, more concealable than long guns”. Your pistol is good for fighting your way back to your rifle. All those westerns, cop and detective shows I watched were wrong. Hard to understand how criminal thugs continue on with fatal wounds.