Wisconsin protest, a sign of things to come?

[nofearfactor]

I know both sides of the coin here.

My wife is a corporate exec,26 years on the job. Non union. She started at her job right out of highschool as an entry level clerical worker. The company is a small family owned privately held company founded in Tulsa in the early 60s doing global business manufacturing oilfield equipment,refinery equiment,etcetc. They helped her get her degree by paying her to go to school (she went to night school while working during the day). Now 26 years later she is probably running the company herself she has been there so long. The president and his sons totally rely on her and her expertise. I guess she is a dying breed of a non union worker who stuck it out her entire working career negotiating her own terms. Ive told her many times how lucky she is. She knows know difference though as she has never worked any where else. Their manufacturing shop is also non union but they have taken very good care of their workers paying them very well and giving them good benefits. From what I understand anyways. Maybe this type of company and these types of owners are a dying breed also.

I on the other hand as a professional musician have been in the musicians union,Local 6, in California for over 20 years. Its been bittersweet at times,but a necessary evil. I have gotten many jobs I wouldnt have gotten if I wasnt union. With all of the different types of jobs,most all jobs are done by union workers, working alot of the jobs needed to put entertainment shows together in our industry, you dont want to go the indie route. Been there done that. I would like to forget the days of getting stiffed on gigs you drove all day to get to.

My own small private business I am a co-owner of is staffed with non union workers-tattoo artists. If there were a union for our artists then I would deal with them as I need them to help me do my business. As it is I pay my people commensurate to what other shops do,plus I offer benefits,which is something most shops do not do. But these people become like family to you and you want to make sure they are taken care of. Thats just me. I dont have to do it but I wouldnt feel right if we couldnt do it,even though it cuts into profit margins. But I understand its bad enough being in a business that you only get paid when someone is sitting in that chair,why make it worse by not being able to help someone.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I'm keeping up as best I can.
I know we need a middle class. Hell, I'm one of them. What you can't, or won't, do can be done by someone else. This guy puts everything he has on a business plan. He works his ass off to make it viable. What he doesn't need is some group of people telling him how to run his business or pay his people. It's his business. Do it his way or go elsewhere. He doesn't hire the middle class so they can start dictating his business decisions.



You asked a question, I gave an answer. Does that stuff no longer happen?



Everybody knows about DSG, therefor they are not a good answer. What
percentage of the union workforce are they? Higher or lower than 8%?

Bob... You really excel at restating what's said in an effort to disagree.

The point.... If management in all these awful union shops would nut up and enforce the contract (as TRW does) every thing would be good.
Contrary to the rumors, you can be fired, given time off etc... If managers document or follow through. They don't
But I have had em fight overtime meals for extended hours.... Tie up hours in greivence meetings over $25 bucks owed to a man who worked overnight in a typhoon getting the lights on.

Most of the guys who make the business plan are corporate board members paid millions to send our work to China.

In my local we had several mom and pop contractors who were successful because the could obtain and lay off qualified union workers as they were needed. Most Union electrical contractors are small business.. Who are able to get the high margin jobs because they can tap a predictable well trained work force.

Phillips is closing a union electric plant (parts manufacturing) soon. It's the flagship of US operations....best production numbers in the system... Moving to Mexico. Goodyear is closing another west Tennessee plant for the same reason.
It ain't the cost of labor that costs jobs

 

[1shot(bob)]

Evidently you're talking about the best of the unions and I'm talking about the worst, such as the fine folks in Wisconsin, the UAW, and the people I work with in my daily work, to name a few. Since we're not on the same page. I'l stop here.

 

[aryfrosty]

I believe that one principle should govern here:
If you want to belong to a union you should be allowed to and if you don't want to belong to one nobody should ever be able to force you to.

In New Hampshire all state employees are required to pay a union. ANd their union is the biggest collection of socialist idiots on earth.
If you belong to the union you pay dues.
If you don't you are forced to pay what they call "FAIR SHARE".
If you only pay their "fair share" you do NOT get automatic union representation, you only benefit, "supposedly" from their negotiations. If you have a contract issue with the state you can get the union to represent you IF you pay an extra fee on top of their fair share.

Those dimple wipes should not be allowed to collect any money from workers who don't want or need their crummy representation. This country has far too many radical unions and union officers who bleed the employer and then bleed the employee.

I grant that there might be unions which serve a good purpose. But nobody should be forced to join a union for any reason.

 

[Billybob]

Interesting story, guess it's safe to say things used to be different.

[On August 24, the march began as approximately 5,000 men crossed Lens Creek Mountain. The miners wore red bandanas, which earned them the nickname, "red necks." In Logan County, Don Chafin mobilized an army of deputies, mine guards, store clerks, and state police. Meanwhile, after a request by Governor Morgan for federal troops, President Harding dispatched World War I hero Henry Bandholtz to Charleston to survey the situation. On the 26th, Bandholtz and the governor met with Keeney and Mooney and explained that if the march continued, the miners and UMWA leaders could be charged with treason. That afternoon, Keeney met a majority of the miners at a ballfield in Madison and instructed them to turn back. As a result, some of the miners ended their march. However, two factors led many to continue. First, special trains promised by Keeney to transport the miners back to Kanawha County were late in arriving. Second, the state police raided a group of miners at Sharples on the night of the 27th, killing two. In response, many miners began marching toward Sharples, just across the Logan County line.]

[On September 1, President Harding finally sent federal troops from Fort Thomas, Kentucky. War hero Billy Mitchell led an air squadron from Langley Field near Washington, D.C.]

[Special grand juries handed down 1,217 indictments, including 325 for murder and 24 for treason against the state.]

West Virginia's Mine Wars
Compiled by the West Virginia State Archives
http://www.wvculture.org/history/minewars.html

 

[tntrex]

OK. I tried to hold back on this union b.s. But this is it. I'm private sector small business or whatever you call it. So i'm just a hard worker like anyone else. However, my brother/best friend works in railroad and he is "UNION" and he hates it. He loves his work(railcars) but he hates the union!!. He been there for about 15-16 yrs. It is all about senoritly and he told me that this last election they crammed his locker and face full of "barry and company" fliers. He says him and another guy is the only one that did not vote for who they were told to.!! .....REALLY! He has no respect for the union institution and he is the hardest worker I know (maybe the only one there) so how can I respect them? Like he says, it's all political to them(the union) and it's all one sided with a capital D....

 

[eellis]

I have seen some of the "skillset" of union employees.
Think I will stay with small private contractors who rely on their skills, both trade skills and people skills. They rely on doing a good job for a fair price to maintain their jobs.

Oh is that so you have been to a firestation and did a ride along with a police officer, or maybe went and helped a teacher with her planning assignment for the week???

 

[LightningCrash]

Oh is that so you have been to a firestation and did a ride along with a police officer, or maybe went and helped a teacher with her planning assignment for the week???

Oh that so is have you been in a Fortune 50 datacenter? Or maybe did a ride along with an AC repairman, or maybe went and posted something unrelated to the post you were responding to?

 

[eellis]

Union nonunion whatever some people have had bad experiences and some good. Here's the deal they state wants take away my right to negotiate and they want to take over our million dollar pension fund also another couple of HB s want to raise my retirement age from 20 to 25 drop my return rate on my retirement! Union may not be great for everyone but they do somewhat keep your city managers and mayors honest to some degree. It may be a necessary evil but it is necessary. Yes tier is some terrible leadership but everything has it's sour apples . At for instance your investment banker (the state) calls you and says man I just lost all your money but I think we can fix those just let me have access t your savings (pension fund) account would you let them that's what the state wants.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I say that any workers that want to organize to get better deals - more power to them...definitely a place for it. Absolutely go for it - do whatever you can by the power of collective bargaining to get the best possible wages and so forth you can get...


HOWEVER....

It should be a fair and level playing field for both sides, not with the game rigged too much by the federal government. The FLSA says that an employer cannot fire a worker solely because he is striking? WTF. I say that that's unfair. Of course you should be able to fire someone for any reason or no reason at all in an employment-at-will state, and this should be no exception. The organized employees have *every right* to strike and make them employer hurt to try to get what they want - justly so. But the employer should be able to fire the striking workers and replace them with other workers, if they WANT to do so (they may not want to do so, if the prevailing political winds and attitudes are against the overly greedy employer), AND if they can find other replacement workers out there in the workforce willing to do the job, at the wage-benefit-hours-conditions level offered - that's the free market at work.

I'm ALL FOR organizing, and think that a LOT MORE types of workers should unionize, particularly restaurant/hotel/entertainment workers - but leave it a fair and level playing field - don't stack the deck and alter the free market conditions by prohibiting firing for striking. So for years the unions have had an unfair advantage, seems to me, because of this rule. But I could be wrong...

Now I can see the fairness of the rule prohibiting firing or discrimination based solely on promoting union activities / organizing at the workplace - I mean sheesh, you've got to allow people their right to associate and talk and organize when they're at the jobsite but on break, for example. But it seems to me that the law goes too far in the unions' favor by prohibiting firing for striking - I mean, when WOULD be a good time to fire someone, if not a time when they purposely don't show up for work, for days on end, for the specific stated purpose of trying to harm your busines financially!?

Just my two cents.