Religious Topics and Questions

[MaddSkillz]

To this day, I haven't found any parent that could send any of their children to a place of eternal torment for all of eternity for something they did in this lifetime. And actually, I do believe some parents would go in the place of their child...

Sound familiar?

I'm telling you God is more compassionate then the fundamental teachings would have you to believe. Unbelief was not too big for God. He knows what's best for us even if we don't believe it is. He knows in the end we'll be set straight and all will be reconciled to Him one day.

Romans 11:36
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Ephesians 1:10
And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ--everything in heaven and on earth.

 

[WTJ]

The grace is of god, faith is of man. Am I oversimplifying that? Should I be looking/thinking deeper?

I get that. I had that discussion with two friends, one who had been a 'militant' Christian, and one who still was. The currently 'militant' one had a great deal of difficulty with that. He was over thinking the concept as near as I could tell.

 

[Shooter00]

There are somethings that we have to hold on to - tightly, without waivering, no compromise, when it comes to Christianity. That Jesus is the Son of God, who was sent by His Father to save US, the children of God. Who was killed dead, buried and rose again, and that when He died, he took all of the sins that anyone had ever committed, or may ever commit wiped the slate clean. Jesus wasn't held by death, He rose and returned to sit next to His Father in Heaven until He is to return and finish the battle. He sent His Spirit to be our Helper, to move in His people and bring in His Kingdom. The only way to be part of the Kingdom of God is to get one on one with Jesus, receiving the gifts He has for us.

Everything else is irrelevant, like what I wear on Sunday morning or what kind of music we play or if I dance or booze or chew. We hold tighly to the Truth, and let His Spirit show us what He'd have us do.

 

[Okie4570]

I find it interesting and refreshing that a dozen Oklahomans from different backgrounds and beliefs can visit on this forum about Christ, God, salvation, grace and religion all the while being civil and curtious to each other Proud to be an Oklahoman and part of this site. Morning will come early, good night to all, have a good week.

 

[OKMike]

So salvation is up to us even though the bible says it's "not of ourselves." C'mon, don't you see the contradiction?

Well, I don't believe "hell" is biblical... The lake of fire is, but not hell.

Are we not offered grace to acheive salvation, so by choosing to accept (man's part) grace (God's part) we receive salvation. So we do have a choice of salvation or not. The choice is of ouselves, the offer of grace is of God.

 

[MaddSkillz]

The grace is of god, faith is of man. Am I oversimplifying that? Should I be looking/thinking deeper?

The faith mentioned in that verse is the faith of Christ, not our faith. If it was our faith it would even further not make any sense.

Galations 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Many people believe the faith in that verse is our faith. It is not or else - like I said - it wouldn't make any sense because the same verse goes on to say "not of ourselves."

Christ had faith and we are justified by His faith.

 

[WTJ]

To this day, I haven't found any parent that could send any of their children to a place of eternal torment for all of eternity for something they did in this lifetime. And actually, I do believe some parents would go in the place of their child...

Sound familiar?

I'm telling you God is more compassionate then the fundamental teachings would have you to believe. Unbelief was not too big for God. He knows what's best for us even if we don't believe it is. He knows in the end we'll be set straight and all will be reconciled to Him one day.

Romans 11:36
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Ephesians 1:10
And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ--everything in heaven and on earth.

I think this is where you reach the line of departure between God and Religion. Religions are created in the bureaucratic mind of man, and as such, must have measures of control, like created prohibitions and fear. God would no more 'burn' his children than most of us would. Look at Satan. He fell from grace and has yet to burn.

 

[OKMike]

I find it interesting and refreshing that a dozen Oklahomans from different backgrounds and beliefs can visit on this forum about Christ, God, salvation, grace and religion all the while being civil and curtious to each other Proud to be an Oklahoman and part of this site. Morning will come early, good night to all, have a good week.

Agreed, gonna have a drink ( a stiff one I think) LOL, and go to bed, will catch up to this thread tomorrow.

 

[gillman7]

So a loving God who knows everything gives us this rope called "free will." He knows most will end up hanging themselves for all eternity with it but chooses to give it them anyway. Is that love? Is that responsible? Is that just?

If God made it where we didnt have the free will then it WOULD be like a bunch of zombies. He knows some will and some wont accept him , read Acts.

Christ did 100%

Not to be argumentative, but where in the Bible do you find the term "free will"?

Man is free to choose according to his heart (desires), and reasoning (mind). However, the Bible says that a man's heart is deceitfully wicked, and who can fathom the mind of God? If both of these are true, then how are we free? We will always choose according to our desires and reasoning. If we as mankind fell both literally and figuratively in Adam, we are corrupted at the basest core of our being. To say that we would have chosen differently than Adam did, or should not be responsible for his actions, we are talking about the fairest test, a man made specifically by God, and walked and talked with him. Of course, this is to be believed by faith.

Salvation is a gift, because the ability to believe is a gift from God. Scripture says no man seeks God. Pretty simple, no one. So the reason that men believe is because God opened their eyes and called them to himself. Mankind cannot say that ignorance is their excuse, because Romans says that even the fact of creation directs man to a Creator, and should stir within him a desire to find him.

The problem is that most people try to understand God with the limitations of how Mankind thinks. We have too many preachers, and people that try to make God into the image of man, not the other way around. I think you raise some very interesting questions, and if you would like to PM me, I would love to discuss with you. For example:

Is Christ's sacrifice totally efficacious? If it is, then salvation forgives all sins, past, present and future. Because when he chose us before the foundation of the world, he forgave all of them, even the sin of unbelief. So if he shed his blood and it either completed what he wanted it to do, or was it not powerful enough to do what he wanted to do?

Is man, infinitely more powerful than God's desire? The answer lies in your understanding and perception of God, and his relationship to man. I think you have some very healthy questions, and should research for the answers.

 

[MaddSkillz]

Are we not offered grace to acheive salvation, so by choosing to accept (man's part) grace (God's part) we receive salvation. So we do have a choice of salvation or not. The choice is of ouselves, the offer of grace is of God.

Grace is grace, it's not something that is based on a contingency. You're over-complicating grace. Secondly, I don't believe free will when it comes to belief for salvation is scriptural. Philippians 1:29 says God graciously grants people to believe. I mean, I don't know how else we can come to the conclusion that belief is of ourselves.