FBI switching to 9mm

[MoBoost]

Do you have a link for that?

Why, yes I do!

http://www.sightm1911.com//1911-History.htm

Soldiers found that their revolvers chambered in .38 Long Colt simply would not stop the Moro. It should be noted that their .30 Krag rifles didn’t do a whole lot better against these warriors.

View attachment 42998

And the standard is the standard.

I am afraid the pictures of actual shipping boxes of current NATO ammo outweigh whatever preliminary specs/internet speculation/hearsay out there. (also note the date).

Lot from 1987 was 124gn
http://forums.thecmp.org/archive/index.php/t-31563.html

12-13-2010, 06:04 PM
I happen to have 10 boxes of genuine US M882 ball. I'll sacrifice a round and pull it down for you. Then we'll all know.

Rob

EDIT: and the winner is...123.6 grains. This is from a brown cardboard box marked as follows: 50 CARTRIDGES, 9mm BALL NATO, M882, LOT WCC87E013-082, OLIN CORPORATION. Ammo is in a styrofoam tray. Headstamp is the NATO symbol over WCC 87. So I guess it is possible that this is an old spec. FYI, the powder is a small grain ball or flake and weighed around 2.7 gr.

 

[farmerbyron]

(note - for whatever it's worth - this was posted in 2006; images and videos no longer available)

25 yard penetration test on a Point Blank - Level II vest.

Weapons used:
16" AR - 55gr Wolf .223
11.5" AR - 55gr Wolf .223
1911 - 230gr Ball .45
G30 - Win T230 +P .45
G30 - 115gr +P 9mm

16" AR - cut it like butter, did not even slow down.

11.5" AR, 25 yd - cut it like butter, did not even slow down.

1911 - good to deep penetration, good mushroom, knocked vest off stand.

G30 .45 - deep penetration, good mushroom, knocked vest off stand.

G30 9mm - stopped round, little if any noticeable penetration, shook vest but did not move it after two shots.

I'm sorry but this goes against how body armor works. The BP vest works by absorbing the impact of the bullet. A larger, slower bullet will defuse its energy over a greater area. Now any HP round will struggle against a BP vest due to the expanding nature of the bullet thus dispersing the energy and this goes for all calibers. Why do you think they have developed the 5.7x28 round? A smaller bullet can focus its energy in a smaller area thus allowing penetration.


If a .45 gives you a mental edge which results in more accuracy then by all means carry away. But I'll take double the capacity for the size every time considering the minuscule difference in performance between handgun rounds.

 

[OKCShooter]

I'm sorry but this goes against how body armor works. The BP vest works by absorbing the impact of the bullet. A larger, slower bullet will defuse its energy over a greater area. Now any HP round will struggle against a BP vest due to the expanding nature of the bullet thus dispersing the energy and this goes for all calibers. Why do you think they have developed the 5.7x28 round? A smaller bullet can focus its energy in a smaller area thus allowing penetration.


If a .45 gives you a mental edge which results in more accuracy then by all means carry away. But I'll take double the capacity for the size every time considering the minuscule difference in performance between handgun rounds.

Well Crap, there you go bringing logic into this discussion instead of emotion.

Now the keyboard ninja is going to swoop in and call you names...not.

 

[Sanford]

Why, yes I do!

http://www.sightm1911.com//1911-History.htm

I suppose an irrelevant link is as good as no link. That article is about the 1911 pistol and not the .45 caliber cartridge which it mentions only sidereally - and certainly doesn't support your statement that its "inception was absurd" any more than...

"Demand for larger calibers in military sidearms led to Luger to develop the 9×19mm Parabellum cartridge for his new pistol. This was achieved by removing the bottleneck shape of the 7.65×21mm Parabellum case, resulting in a tapered rimless cartridge encasing a bullet that was 9mm in diameter."

... supports the notion that the inception of what we refer to as 9mm was absurd.

I am afraid the pictures of actual shipping boxes of current NATO ammo outweigh whatever preliminary specs/internet speculation/hearsay out there. (also note the date).

Lot from 1987 was 124gn

Yes, let's note the date. The current standard was published in April 1994 with Change 2 dated 20 December 1996, so your old, non-standard ammunition predates the current standard. This isn't unusual for the military supply system with stockpiles that go back decades to being used up, but even given the benefit of the doubt that's what it is, or that it may have been accepted by the military as a suitable substitute for the standard item, it doesn't change the standard. That's just not how it works.

 

[Sanford]

I'm sorry but this goes against how body armor works. The BP vest works by absorbing the impact of the bullet. A larger, slower bullet will defuse its energy over a greater area. Now any HP round will struggle against a BP vest due to the expanding nature of the bullet thus dispersing the energy and this goes for all calibers. Why do you think they have developed the 5.7x28 round? A smaller bullet can focus its energy in a smaller area thus allowing penetration.

I'm sorry you don't like the test, it's always kind of a drag when real world results don't support the theory. Granted a single test doesn't prove that the same results will occur every time, but it does prove that the results observed can occur.

If a .45 gives you a mental edge which results in more accuracy then by all means carry away. But I'll take double the capacity for the size every time considering the minuscule difference in performance between handgun rounds.

And I'll take the advantage of that "miniscule" difference every time because I may well not have the time to take advantage of the additional round count. Otherwise I'd just use a .22 pistol with 110 rounds available in a single mag.

 

[CHenry]

I'm sorry but this goes against how body armor works. The BP vest works by absorbing the impact of the bullet. A larger, slower bullet will defuse its energy over a greater area. Now any HP round will struggle against a BP vest due to the expanding nature of the bullet thus dispersing the energy and this goes for all calibers. Why do you think they have developed the 5.7x28 round? A smaller bullet can focus its energy in a smaller area thus allowing penetration.


If a .45 gives you a mental edge which results in more accuracy then by all means carry away. But I'll take double the capacity for the size every time considering the minuscule difference in performance between handgun rounds.

So your saying a 9mm should penetrate deeper because its smaller diameter and faster velocity right? I suppose kinetic energy has no play here? Regardless of a hollow point or not, compare apples to apples here, test 9mm and .45 acp in hollow point or ball, use the largest grain 9mm you can get your hands on and shoot a block of gelatin with both rounds.
The .45 will run deeper.

 

[JD8]

Just about every caliber has loadings that outperform their 9mm counter part....... .45....40.... and one of my favorites.... the .357 sig.

Considering wounding performance only.... you can't argue with physics.

 

[Old Fart]

The question is - "Why?"

Just in case this was for me.......
I don't know.
I was sitting there minding my own business when some jackwagon let loose a errant round down the firing line.
I guess we were lucky it hit my ammo box.

 

[Coded-Dude]

So.... If capacity was limited (can only carry 10 rounds), would you still choose 9mm?

Transmitted via Tactical Telecommunications Device

 

[CHenry]

So.... If capacity was limited (can only carry 10 rounds), would you still choose 9mm?

Transmitted via Tactical Telecommunications Device

I would not.