ban public school

[mugsy]

I think Gov. Fallin and the legislature are trying to get more funding for private schools etc. and in effect getting rid of public schools. At least that's what
the Tulsa World liberal newspaper is accusing them of doing!

That type of hyperbole is so common and false as to be silly at this point. Public school officials like a system where they are guaranteed tax revenue but not held directly accountable and they scream whenever anything is put in place that might represent a challenge from what they view as "their" money.

 

[Danny Tanner]

Absolutely would not mind elaborating but first I'll throw in my disclaimer - I am a product of mostly NY City public schools - except for middle school when I attended a local private Catholic school. Socialization is always useful but in my opinion that is a fig leaf in the home schooling discussion used to cover a lack of real analysis of what one means by socialization. My youngest three children were educated at home but were not locked int he house. They engaged the general public through Scouting, Church, civic organizations (besides Scouting), sports, and work. What I didn't do was hand over their care to a relative stranger for most of the waking hours of most days of the year.

Public school socialization may include many things that while existing in the world are certainly not good for children. BTW - this is not an indictment of all public schooling - there are good public schools - but in recent years especially it has become very difficult for parents to influence or, in some cases, even be aware of what is being taught or occurring within the school. That is not a good situation.

I know I didn't eliminate all negative aspects of life for my kids - there are jerks and dirtbags in Scouting and in Churches, and at various jobs but I feel that my kids were much better prepared to deal with the onslaught of what I consider negative aspects of society via home-school preparation than if I had simply thrown them to the winds of a public school system which often has not just poor curriculum but questionable standards of conduct and many disciplinary issues. All of the kids interaction issues you mentioned were still there but now my wife and I were much more aware and a much more significant influence in our own childrens' lives.

As a side benefit I will add that my kids arrived at college - they are all in college right now - much better prepared academically as well. That is a side benefit but a significant one. They were all proficient in advanced math, Latin, and knew far more US and World history than most of their peers from public or private schools. They also were very conversant with Classical literature (Greek, Latin classics) and the European political thought (Machiavelli, Hobbes, Locke, etc.)

BTW - consider that some of what you are calling "good" socialization may not be - bullying, early sexual activity, drugs, etc. You're right a kid may learn to deal with (or accommodate or take part in) those things but he may also become overwhelmed. Once again if parents stay involved that may do the trick but it can be uphill fight and often the schools themselves work against parental interest and involvement.

I understand what you're saying, but I still consider these good benefits of socialization. However, that itself comes with a disclaimer. Too many parents simply do, as you stated, leave the care of their children up to strangers. While I get this is the nature of the beast when it comes to public schools, my wife and I pride ourselves with still being involved with our child's schooling. I'm not talking about volunteering to help out at parties and other events, though we do that, but we ask her and her teachers questions, we review homework, we discuss her school work, we discuss her relationships with friends, and we try to balance letting her learn from her own mistakes yet trying to influence her to stay on the right path.

The reason I bolded your last paragraph is that I consider the fact that this plan can backfire. What if a child is sheltered so much from bullying, sex, drugs, etc, that once they're legal adults and out of the home, they go off the deep end because they were never given the chance to experience (not necessarily first hand) these potentially life-saving lessons?

Still, I'm not arguing your opinion at all. In fact, I support your decision 100%, because not every family is the same and what works for some might not work for others. I've actually considered home school myself, just trying to weigh the pros and cons.

Thanks for a great reply!

 

[Feet Dry]

as far as socialization goes, if everyone is doing homeschool people would naturally begin to get with their neighbors and spend more time with other parents from their church or whatever other social areas the parents go to. And the small groups could do activities together and use the world as their classroom. The other thing to is without the state running the schools how much money would that free up? I'm sure more than enough to furnish at home curriculum for everyone, and lets make sure the state isn't the one sending the curriculum also. I think the parents need to be able to decide what curriculum they teach their child.

This already happens. Home school groups meet once a week in "school" for all the students in that home school "group". There is also seperate home school PE classes, band, choir, sports.... You would be amazed at the homeschooling that is happening in Oklahoma much less nation wide. Owasso has three different groups that are full with more being added. Collinsville has 1 going to split to 2 next year. Chelsea, Tulsa and many more that I have heard of. There are from 1st to 12th grades involved. Once you step in to the home school world you would really see how well this works better than public schools. There is actual common sense being used there. In Oologah, I hear that if a 1st grader acts up in class, instead of dealing with the student, the teacher is instructed to evacuate the classroom of the other students and call for help from the principal. Really? The drawback is that a parent must be available TO homeschool. Our society and the added costs of living make this choice difficult. I have even heard parents say " I don't love my kid that much" to take the time for home school.

 

[daniel1daniel2]

Having finished high school recently I have to agree they are about worthless. They school I went to (will withhold name) was a kinda small town school about 150 per grade that without looking hard you could find a party to go to just about every night, kids dipped/chewed/smoked/drank on campus all the time, and it was surprising to hear a clean joke. We were allowed to go off campus for lunch and when class started a few kids would clime out of there cars and you could not see them for all the smoke that was coming out of their cars.
There was one nationality of students that all but 2 in my grade dropped out by the time they were 16 years old out of over 30 and well over half were serving time in the can before they were 18.
There was kids skipping class all the time with the "birds and the bees"

Since I grew up without any of this stuff it was a whole new world out there, I still remember the first time I came home and said something I should not have. The next thing I knew I was over a knee with my backside getting warmed.

I think the main thing is that I had parents that cared and that makes all the difference in the world and for that reason I don't see the problem with home schooling because it requires the parents to spend time with their kids and teach them something other than how to watch TV and play video games.
Ok now time to get off my soap box.....

 

[tntrex]

 

[Old Fart]

Some of my best students have been home schooled.
There's a local group here that supports eachother.
They have bi-weekly get togethers where the kids do things together.
Mostly the kids benefit from parental involvement.

 

[wasatch]

Somebody did bring it up last month.

http://takimag.com/article/ban_schools_not_guns_kathy_shaidle#axzz2HyUvEEBH

 

[HMFIC]

... nice kids, mean kids, fat kids, skinny kids, kids who climb on rocks.

what about kids with chicken pox?

 

[arkmark]

The drawback is that a parent must be available TO homeschool. Our society and the added costs of living make this choice difficult.

Is it really an issue of cost of living or an issue of spoiling ourselves too much? where things really that much different in the 40's and 50's when mom stayed home? A family had one car, no cable, internet, or cellphone they didn't waste money on processed food, we just came out of the depression and didn't waste anything therefore lived much more efficiently than we do today. You didn't have credit cards if you wanted something you saved for it, people weren't up to their eyeballs in debt, they weren't owned and enslaved to a bank. We've got ourselves into quite a predicament as a consumer economy. My wife and I have discussed this, our oldest son is 5 and in pre-k where he and his brother go to daycare, my wires entire paycheck goes to paying the daycare and covering her and the boys health insurance. We are trying to find a good deal on health ins. for them and then it would be more cost effective for her to stay at home than to work.

This is pretty dated info but in 2009 oklahoma spent just under $8000 per student in one fiscal year. So for my 2 boys if they could pay us $1300 a month for my wife to stay home and teach them. That would more than cover curriculum and some health ins.

 

[WTJ]

A tale about the value, or lack thereof, of obtaining social skills in schools: Early in my school career, I was bored, and therefore somewhat disruptive (refused to shut up and color, literally). I had some perceptive teachers, and I was tested. The test results recommended I be advanced two grades. While my father agreed, my mother was concerned about my 'social skills and peer group'. I was not advanced, and spent the rest of my school career trapped in the prequel to the movie Idiocracy. Obviously, my education about my so-called age, or "peer", group was negatively impacted.

I remind my mother of this frequently, particularly when she comments on my perceived intolerance and social retardation.

I learned Libertarian values in the first grade. I kept telling them to leave me alone, I was not interested in coloring like the other dipshites.