carrying in the presence of known felons

[O4L]

I would think that you would want to be carrying your gun if there are felons around. That's kind of the point.

If you are willing to give up your right to carry to visit a home with a felon inside, then you shouldn't bother at all.

 

[nofearfactor]

If I couldnt visit a home where felons were present or even staying at because I was carrying then hell I couldnt visit more than a few relatives or friends.

 

[Fatboy Joe]

It all goes back to possession. I walk down the street with many people every day, and visit with many people. I have friends that probably are convicted felons and I carry around them all of the time. They do not have access or possession of my firearm. They actually probably don't even know I have it.

 

[Bhargrin]

Return to the basics, you carry for your protection and the protection of yours. You have accepted the responsibility of your personal preservation, and the safety of your family. You have no control over another person or his or her decisions in life. If he is a convicted felon then that was his choice. Why should you have to do anything different around him?

Knowing he is a convicted felon gives you the insight to know that you would never invite him to the range for a day of shooting.

One real life example I was personally involved in; it was years ago. My friends and I were one a shooting adventures enjoying nature and shooting our weapons. We had invited a friend to join us, a friend we had not seen in 5+ years. Well in the course of us having a good time the local police had shown up to see what all the noise was about. As the officer verified all our paperwork and saw, everything was in order he was satisfied. Mind you there were quite a few weapons present over half were registered NFA.

However our friend we hadn't seen in 5+ years, was a different matter. For he had a felony conviction listed under his name and in according to the law at that moment he was in violation. This friend was given a choice to either surrender his weapons or go to jail. He would be allowed to clear himself on the next business day.

All in all it was a happy ending, he was able to contact his lazy attorney to get everything straightened out, and his weapons were returned days later.

I guess the moral of this story here is each man, woman, and child answers for themselves and their actions, you are not your brother's keeper.

We as gun owners have an obligation to know those we choose to hang out with and to avoid possible dangerous situations. Reminds me of something my father had told me when I was young, "if you go looking for trouble, you will surely find it."

I guess what I am trying to say, if you do what you know is right, you are doing good.

 

[Sanford]

'k guys, thanks for the thoughts. I understand the logic regarding carrying or not carrying in a situation, I was just looking to see what sort of opinions people might have about the law (whether or not we think it's right or wrong) and what the chances were of legal issues in this particular situation.

As for the felon himself - I've known him and his family since he was nine or ten years old and am pretty familiar with his specific history so I don't have any personal issues or concerns in that area, other than I really wouldn't want to do anything that was going to cause him to get jammed up, either.

 

[vvvvvvv]

As for the felon himself - I've known him and his family since he was nine or ten years old and am pretty familiar with his specific history so I don't have any personal issues or concerns in that area, other than I really wouldn't want to do anything that was going to cause him to get jammed up, either.

Unless the jury instructions have changed, don't ride in the same car. The instructions (at least at one time) interpret "possession" as merely riding in a car where firearms are present.

"Knowingly" is a fun word in some courtrooms - especially if the parties have a long relationship to each other.

 

[Buzzgun]

This is a good question.

TITLE 21 § 1283 CONVICTED FELONS AND DELINQUENTS
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, it shall be unlawful for any person convicted of any felony in any court of this state or of another state or of the United States to have in his or her possession or under his or her immediate control, or in any vehicle which the person is operating, or in which the person is riding as a passenger, or at the residence where the convicted person resides, any pistol, imitation or homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun or rifle, or any other dangerous or deadly firearm.

B. Any person who has previously been convicted of a nonviolent felony in any court of this state or of another state or of the United States, and who has received a full and complete pardon from the proper authority and has not been convicted of any other felony offense which has not been pardoned, shall have restored the right to possess any firearm or other weapon prohibited by subsection A of this section, the right to apply for and carry a handgun, concealed or unconcealed, pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and the right to perform the duties of a peace officer, gunsmith, or for firearms repair.

C. It shall be unlawful for any person supervised by the Department of Corrections or any division thereof to have in his or her possession or under his or her immediate control, or at his or her residence, or in any passenger vehicle which the supervised person is operating or is riding as a passenger, any pistol, shotgun or rifle, including any imitation or homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, shotgun or rifle, while such person is subject to supervision, probation, parole or inmate status.


F. Any convicted or adjudicated person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable as provided in Section 1284 of this title.


I guess it depends on how the courts interpret the laws, especially the definition of "have". This is the way I read it (my opinion only):

it shall be unlawful for any person convicted of any felony in any court of this state or of another state or of the United States to have any pistol, imitation or homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun or rifle, or any other dangerous or deadly firearm.

1) in his or her possession or under his or her immediate control,

2)in any vehicle which the person is operating, or in which the person is riding as a passenger,

3)at the residence where the convicted person resides.

Clearly, a convicted felon is prohibited from possessing or controlling a firearm, however, I believe the statute goes beyond simple control and/or possession because it is illegal for a felon to reside in a place where firearms are kept, even if the felon has no access to those firearms. If a felon lived in a home where firearms were stored in a safe, and the felon had no access to those firearms, the felon would still be in violation of the law, therefore, no "action", other than being present, is required for the felon to be in violation of the law. I am also not convinced that the felon would have to know firearms are present to technically be in violation. Again, my opinion only.

 

[DFarcher]

Okay, so if he'd have moved in and been living there - would my carrying have made firearms "present"?

Quit with the word play, you get the point. You are not going to be arrested because you happen to cross paths with a felon while you are carrying.

 

[Sanford]

Quit with the word play, you get the point. You are not going to be arrested because you happen to cross paths with a felon while you are carrying.

Unfortunately I've sat on too many juries and seen too many criminal lawyers (prosecution and defense) indulge in precisely that sort of "word play" - often successfully with many jurors - to discount it quite so quickly.

 

[EFsDad]

Unfortunately I've sat on too many juries and seen too many criminal lawyers (prosecution and defense) indulge in precisely that sort of "word play" - often successfully with many jurors - to discount it quite so quickly.

Well if you put it that way, any police officer can arrest you for whatever they deem that you have done weather you have broken any laws or not and and D.A. could prosecute those charges if they want and the judge could do as they seem fit as well.

Not that it is right or legal, just saying.