Do teachers "really" have it that bad???

[saddlebum]

Show me where OK teachers are 48 out of 50 in anything other than pay. I understand people's perceptions of what schools are like and what teachers do represents the truth to them.
Previous posts mentioned market demand. Market demand is why teachers are leaving the state & the profession in droves. If other factors didn't keep me here I would pack my bags and be gone tomorrow.
Only work 9 months? I just completed 30 years in the classroom. Not one of those years did I work fewer hours than someone working 50 weeks a year, 40 hours a week.
More should and can be said than I will attempt on my phone. But I'll conclude with this. Put your finger in my belt loop and hang on for a couple of weeks and your perception will be quite different.

Actually it's our students that rank 48th in the nation,since our teachers produced them it only makes sense they are at the bottom also

 

[JD8]

so you're saying the one ones we have left are the bottom of the barrel and don't deserve the raise they are asking for?

Nope. That's a bit short sided and shows a gross ignorance of what happens today. You realize that funding has been cut, class sizes are larger, the ones that have stayed work with less and are expected to do more.

 

[saddlebum]

Nope. That's a bit short sided and shows a gross ignorance of what happens today. You realize that funding has been cut, class sizes are larger, the ones that have stayed work with less and are expected to more.

You said they are 48th because the good teachers left the state for better pay, you can't have it both ways

 

[Pokinfun]

I'll disagree with that as a rule but that's a red herring. Point remains that many good teachers, or kids just out of school, go elsewhere.

it is not a red herring, we are having a discussion about a political issue, he is part of it. You used him a as proof that our best teacher has left the state, I'm not sure but I think he only had 3 years in a classroom. Also, I do not like using Tulsa Public Schools as an example for anything, but failure. I know some great teachers from Tulsa, but their system sucks. Tulsa is comparable to Oklahoma, I think our public school system is failing, but I know lots of great people doing great things for kids. The system does not always reflect the people in the classroom.
I agree that lots of our best people are leaving the state, but that is not restricted to the education field.
I think it is funny that our politicians in the state are elected by the people. We do not do anything in the classroom that has not been established by our elected officials. Citizens do not blame themselves for creating a system that is not doing well, citizens do not blame their elected officials, they blame the classroom teacher.

 

[JD8]

You said they are 48th because the good teachers left the state for better pay, you can't have it both ways

I'm not having it both ways, you just don't understand.

Funding cut = less teachers + many good ones leave = larger class sizes and those whom are left are expected to take less money for doing more work. Do you think we attract the top of the class and most tenured in Oklahoma with a near constant cut in funding as of late?

 

[saddlebum]

I'm not having it both ways, you just don't understand.

Funding cut = less teachers + many good ones leave = larger class sizes and those whom are left are expected to take less money for doing more work. Do you think we attract the top of the class and most tenured in Oklahoma with a near constant cut in funding as of late?

And what was the excuse before the funding cuts our students were still at the bottom then

 

[Pokinfun]

I'm not having it both ways, you just don't understand.

Funding cut = less teachers + many good ones leave = larger class sizes and those whom are left are expected to take less money for doing more work. Do you think we attract the top of the class and most tenured in Oklahoma with a near constant cut in funding as of late?

Oklahoma still views teaching a job for women that only need secondary income. the guy ago that did all of the math did not realize that he was arguing that point.

 

[Pokinfun]

And what was the excuse before the funding cuts our students were still at the bottom then

valuing education is a social issue, which schools cannot fix. I do get what you are saying, I work with some folks that should not be in a classroom, but they are a minority and not the majority.

 

[JD8]

it is not a red herring, we are having a discussion about a political issue, he is part of it. You used him a as proof that our best teacher has left the state, I'm not sure but I think he only had 3 years in a classroom. Also, I do not like using Tulsa Public Schools as an example for anything, but failure. I know some great teachers from Tulsa, but their system sucks. Tulsa is comparable to Oklahoma, I think our public school system is failing, but I know lots of great people doing great things for kids. The system does not always reflect the people in the classroom.
I agree that lots of our best people are leaving the state, but that is not restricted to the education field.
I think it is funny that our politicians in the state are elected by the people. We do not do anything in the classroom that has not been established by our elected officials. Citizens do not blame themselves for creating a system that is not doing well, citizens do not blame their elected officials, they blame the classroom teacher.

It's a red herring if you understand what that means lol. I never used him as proof as the "best" as I never stated as such. I was making the point that many good ones leave to which you agree. If you don't like my example, then so be it.

As far as TPS being a failure, well their funding has been cut to virtually nothing, and they have more kids than ever. They've definitely shot themselves in the foot, and I don't care for Gist but.... the logistics of what happens in a district that large might be a little more difficult for those in smaller communities to understand.

 

[Pokinfun]

It's a red herring if you understand what that means lol. I never used him as proof as the "best" as I never stated as such. I was making the point that many good ones leave to which you agree. If you don't like my example, then so be it.

As far as TPS being a failure, well their funding has been cut to virtually nothing, and they have more kids than ever. They've definitely shot themselves in the foot, and I don't care for Gist but.... the logistics of what happens in a district that large might be a little more difficult for those in smaller communities to understand.

If you want me to respond, please stop attempting to insult me in every post. The problem with this forum is a few people, including me, cannot state a point without insulting someone else.