So, that means that if somebody questions if a gun is stolen or not, they can now transfer/sell through an FFL.
I thought we could always do that?
So, that means that if somebody questions if a gun is stolen or not, they can now transfer/sell through an FFL.
I thought we could always do that?
No, I replied "sale of handgun" in both cases. The difference is now it is "sale of handgun", when formerly it was "transfer of handgun". The latter response is not an option any more. Sorry if I was unclear.
Dennis, the difference is that now a seller can be sure that the buyer can legally own the firearm being sold by conducting a background check on said buyer thru an FFL dealer via NICS. Before, the NICS would not handle background checks for private sales. Now, it will.
Thanks, yea the "phrasing" was a Little different.... 
I'm just trying to be clear on this. In the past could we not take a gun to an ffl, with the buyer present, transfer the gun to the ffl, and have the ffl transfer it to the buyer after a background check? I get it on the new semantics.
I've never done this, but just thought somebody that had questions might have had this option in the past. Honest question, not a gotcha.
Dennis, yes, in the past you could do exactly that. This new system is different in that it relieves the FFL of the duty of writing the gun in and out of the book, at least as far as I understand it. The seller brings in the gun, buyer fills out 4473, FFL does the NICS check, then, if a "proceed" is given, the seller and the buyer exchange goods for money. Nothing is written in or out of the dealer's book--again, as far as I know at this time. To say that the ATF is not exactly brimming with info on this new policy is a gross understatement. I first heard about the new policy on this forum, and yesterday's two transactions were the first I've seen of it in action.
That's very interesting if it is the new ATF policy. I do understand the concern of those who fear that what might otherwise be a nice additional option for those who would like to use it, will now be touted as the only "common sense" way to proceed. I'd like to see the 4473 abbreviated so that there is no mention of the gun specifics just a simple background check on the indivual buying. Probably wouldn't be palatable since the ATF would say that then couldn't trace the gun back in the even it was used in a crime. You see where I am going with this?
I would like an abbreviated NICS option for private sellers to utilize - even for a small fee - but unless it is abbreviated to NOT include gun tracing info it is just back-door registration. I am sure most ATF/LE personnel would say that unless a gun serial number hits for a crime there would be no reason to pull the records but that doesn't make me feel good since I know there are plenty of other folks itching to turn possession of whole classes of guns into a crime...requiring that records be pulled in order to make us safe (or make the children safe). Sorry - rant off.
Woody, could you please clarify something for me here? I understand the part about doing the NICS check for the seller (and, therefore, on the buyer), but I am wondering about the part where you say the transaction must be recorded in the log book. How would this be different from the old way wherein the seller transfers the gun to the dealer, who then writes it into the book, then does the NICS check and transfers it to the buyer, and then writes it out of the book? How would the transaction between two private parties make its way into the dealer's log book? We haven't done this type of transaction before, and I would really appreciate it if you could clarify this for me.
mightymouse,
Here is the text in that email I received from the FBI-NICS:
Go to that linked article from the ATF and you'll see where it requires you to log the gun in your bound book. Also note that if the transfer cannot be completed, you'll have to do a 4473 and NICS check upon the person who brought the gun to you for transfer in order to return the gun to him. That's why the call center asked if it was a "sale", "private sale", or "return". Once it is logged in your book, you must have a 4473 and NICS transaction number to be able to log it out(Unless it is a gunsmith job with a work order number and the gun was held overnight(which requires the gun to be logged in) and is being picked up by the same person who brought you the gun for the work.).
I hope that is clear. It's tough to filter through all that mud!
Tell anyone who brings you a gun to be transferred in a private sale, that if the buyer does not pass the NICS check, you'll have to do a 4473 and NICS check to return the gun to the seller. That might discourage the seller's desire to do a background check on the buyer.
Woody
Here is the text in that email I received from the FBI-NICS:
Go to that linked article from the ATF and you'll see where it requires you to log the gun in your bound book. Also note that if the transfer cannot be completed, you'll have to do a 4473 and NICS check upon the person who brought the gun to you for transfer in order to return the gun to him. That's why the call center asked if it was a "sale", "private sale", or "return". Once it is logged in your book, you must have a 4473 and NICS transaction number to be able to log it out(Unless it is a gunsmith job with a work order number and the gun was held overnight(which requires the gun to be logged in) and is being picked up by the same person who brought you the gun for the work.).
I hope that is clear. It's tough to filter through all that mud!
Tell anyone who brings you a gun to be transferred in a private sale, that if the buyer does not pass the NICS check, you'll have to do a 4473 and NICS check to return the gun to the seller. That might discourage the seller's desire to do a background check on the buyer.
Woody
Thank you, Woody. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my question.
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