Free trade

[Nraman]

Intel recently opened up a new billion dollar chip factory in Vietnam (computer chips are not potato chips as Perot noted).
If the corporate tax rate was lower and regulations relaxed, it would still pay for Intel to make the chips there and pay really low wages.
The way I see it, to compete in "fair and free trade" we would have to allow our standard of living to go down to the level of the Chinese, Indians etc.
I understand and agree that there are more factors involved than just trade, IMHO even if all these factors didn't exist, paying Americans is more expensive and will stay that way till we slide to their level. Do we want that?

 

[Hobbes]

Let's all race the Chinese, Indians, and the Vietnamese to the bottom of the drain.

First country that gets there.....



Wins???

 

[Nraman]

Let's all race the Chinese, Indians, and the Vietnamese to the bottom of the drain.

First country that gets there.....



Wins???

I doubt it. I think we are better off with a different solution. I kinda like the way I live now. Being a third world nation sucks.

 

[tran]

If we keep exporting our jobs out of this country were never going to get back on our feet. Manufacturing is what built America as we know it.

 

[tran]

I doubt it. I think we are better off with a different solution. I kinda like the way I live now. Being a third world nation sucks.

I think we are headed in that direction.

 

[soonerwings]

The only element that drives up prices is government. Their constant meddling with regulations and mandates is passed on to the consumer. There isn't a business in the US that pays taxes.

Disagree on both counts. I believe that unions drive up prices on goods by increasing labor costs. I also believe that fuel costs rising as a result of excessive speculation (yes...I think a LACK of regulation is actually hurting us all in this instance) also drives up prices by driving up costs. I believe that simple supply and demand can drive up prices independent of the government. As far as businesses not paying taxes, here's how I view it. You may be correct in that large corporations don't pay taxes, HOWEVER most businesses in the U.S. are small sole proprietorships and LLCs. Under the sole proprietorships and LLCs, the companies are treated as "pass through" entities with regards to profit. More simply put, the profit income of the business and the income of the owner are one and the same. When Joe the Plumber (remember that guy?) pays income tax, his business is paying taxes.

 

[Tinbender75]

The unions are only about 10% of the manufacturing work force. They must be very powerful to run everyone overseas and south of the border. Anyone remember all the jobs Right to Work was supposed to bring? Where are they? I haven't seen any manufacturing plants or much else that wasn't service related being built. The price of a car seems to be the same whether the UAW built it or someone else in Korea? Why is that?

Perot was right, that sucking sound is all of our jobs leaving. NAFTA seems like pure insanity but these corporations and their government puppets new exactly what they were doing. They don't want to be here and they don't care about us. As long as you still make enough money to buy their sh*t at Walmart that is all they care about. Once that stops there maybe a problem. Unions are a scapegoat like I said how can such a small entity destroy a nations manufacturing. It can't but greed can.

For example. Now that my American made shoes are so popular I need to expand. Should I stay here and be loyal to my country? Well here I pay more for wages than I would paying someone next to nothing in a third world country. I pay more taxes here? I have to work within the EPA's guidelines. And on and on. If it isn't pure greed and CEO's making 400% more than the workers, it is the government itself and their policies keeping people from doing business here.

So after all my rambling I blame it all on the powers that be. Globalization is a good thing!

 

[soonerwings]

Anyone remember all the jobs Right to Work was supposed to bring? Where are they?

Perhaps we should ask the residents of S.C. Do you think it's coincidence that Boeing just built a $750 million assembly plant in S.C.? What about the brand new building that they're putting up near Tinker?

I haven't seen any manufacturing plants or much else that wasn't service related being built.

Labor cost is only ONE factor that manufacturing companies (all companies for that matter) consider when opening a new plant. Others include incentives given by government (requiring shrewd government negotiators, overall location desirability, and availability of an educated work force. Care to venture a guess at how Oklahoma stacks up against other states in these other criteria? That's not a shot at OK (we do some other things right) but the simple truth is that as a state we aren't as competitive as other states in attracting manufacturing or high tech businesses.

The price of a car seems to be the same whether the UAW built it or someone else in Korea? Why is that?

Now if only American cars were of the same QUALITY for a given price. Have you compared defect rates against foreign competition? The American auto industry deserves some credit for starting to close the gap, but it's still getting spanked by Toyota and Honda.

If it isn't pure greed and CEO's making 400% more than the workers, it is the government itself and their policies keeping people from doing business here.

Agreed, there are other factors that drive up price, but increased labor costs driven by unions is still one of them.

 

[Tinbender75]

I was referring to private manufacturing jobs. I don't consider the buildings at Tinker part of the scenario but most of them are built by union building trades and are bid on by nonunion also. Also as I am told once the new construction is done that is it besides maintenance work.

That is great for SC. I am just saying unions are not the destruction of the US manufacturing as some people believe and limiting unions power isn't going to do anything to bring business back.

Obviously union labor is more expensive no question.

Unions are almost nonissue as farm as I am concerned for companies leaving America.

 

[soonerwings]

I was referring to private manufacturing jobs. I don't consider the buildings at Tinker part of the scenario but most of them are built by union building trades and are bid on by nonunion also. Also as I am told once the new construction is done that is it besides maintenance work.

That is great for SC. I am just saying unions are not the destruction of the US manufacturing as some people believe and limiting unions power isn't going to do anything to bring business back.

Obviously union labor is more expensive no question.

Unions are almost nonissue as farm as I am concerned for companies leaving America.

I'd say that union labor being more expensive is more of a reason for labor to move to right to work states than to leave the country. Data from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis and the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics collected from 1997-2007 (a fairly stable decade) show that right to work states crush forced union states in both job growth and economic growth. The percentages can be found here.

As far as motivation to ship jobs overseas, I'd say that I agree with you that a lot of it has to do with other factors, to include rampant regulation and a heinous tax system.