Free trade

[dutchwrangler]

Until you start talking about products made almost exclusively in forced unionization states. Auto industry anyone?



Our tax code does not distinguish between the owner and the business when it comes to the LLC or sole proprietorship. This being the case, sole proprietor or LLC owner income taxes ARE taxes on the company. There are no CEOs in these forms of business. There are owners. The owners and the business are one and the same in the eyes of the (tax) law.



No problem. I'll talk about an industry that I'm familiar with. Fast casual franchising. During the height of our nation's economic worries in 2008-2009, Firehouse Subs (the parent company) decided that prices would not be raised. This being the case, franchise owners were not allowed to raise their prices in the face of rising costs. Instead, they were forced to accept reduced profits as the company gambled that increasing marketing expenses would build a stronger brand as the stores would compete on service and quality rather than price.

No increased costs were passed to the consumer. The franchise owners (and therfore the companies they owned) paid taxes whether you choose to believe it or not. Firehouse was not the only franchise to not raise prices, nor are they the only franchise that doesn't allow individual franchise owners to have discretion with regards to pricing. Seeing as there are countless thousands of franchise small business owners in this country, there are countless thousands of businesses that paid taxes.

I

I'll repeat for just you. Government in and of itself does not have any desires whatsoever and can only be as good as the PEOPLE that design and operate the system.

It would seem then that a franchise is not a stand alone business and is nothing more than an extention of the parent company. In that regard my point remains valid that all taxes are paid for by the consumer. The profits of a franchise may be reduced by the policy of the parent company, but all costs (overhead, payroll, taxes) involved in the sale of a product is paid for by the end consumer. This behavior is only practical to a certain point at which time the laws of economics comes into play. The franchise goes out of business. And the parent company loses income.

As I said, taxes are paid by the consumer. All business revenue, before it's split to pay the bills and Uncle Sugar, comes out of the wallet of the final consumer. If the consumer does not open his or her wallet a business gains zero money. If the cost of business exceeds that point for which the consumer is willing to part with their money then the business fails.

This is the law of economics and can not be refuted.

And yes, government is only as good as those who are sent there by the PEOPLE. And as our society has chosen to view Liberty as a something not to be valued, society has sent representatives who will take from those who have and give to those who have not. Wealth redistribution. Theft. Immoral... like the society it represents.

 

[WTJ]

All corporate/business taxes are paid for by the end user of the product. Business will move to an area with more business friendly tax codes. Right to work states exist because GOVERNMENT mandates required the use of union labor in closed shops. Davis/Bacon Act is an example. Oklahoma did not benefit as much from RTW because of archaic laws concerning taxes and Workman's Compensation.

If the FEDGOV and states were smart, they would COMPLETELY repeal corporate/business taxes. Make the US a tax haven and everyone would beat down the doors.

A flat rate income tax with NO exemptions would pay for a properly sized .gov.

 

[dutchwrangler]

All corporate/business taxes are paid for by the end user of the product. Business will move to an area with more business friendly tax codes. Right to work states exist because GOVERNMENT mandates required the use of union labor in closed shops. Davis/Bacon Act is an example. Oklahoma did not benefit as much from RTW because of archaic laws concerning taxes and Workman's Compensation.

If the FEDGOV and states were smart, they would COMPLETELY repeal corporate/business taxes. Make the US a tax haven and everyone would beat down the doors.

A flat rate income tax with NO exemptions would pay for a properly sized .gov.

No doubt. The fix is simple. But the problem is that it reduces the power of government. They're not willing to give it up. The people suffer...

A flat, fixed national sales tax of 1% works for me. Since government is vastly inferior to God who only ASKS for 10%... I'd be willing to give 1% max with no other taxation ever.

 

[reddog1]

www.infowars.com

www.prisonplanet.com

There is a War on for Your Mind.

 

[dennishoddy]

I drive a Toyota made in Japan with almost 300,000 miles on it. Still uses only a half quart in the 5000 mile oil change the factory recommends.
My electronics are made in China, India, Taiwan, Mexico, and so on and so on.

Going to destroy the American Economy?

Don't think so.

Some of these third world countries have no natural resources, and they import them from places like the US.

Example: Japan has no iron ore. Prior to WWII the ore was from the US. Guess where that went.

China today is putting coal burning power plants on line at the rate of one per month to support their economy.
They have a mining industry, but the Powder River Basin Coal in Wyoming that is basically sulfur free, is in high demand, and our EPA is putting pressure on the coal burners in this country to the point they are going to drive them to go to Natural gas, that will double or triple your current electric bill, so the companies are keeping American workers going, are selling, transporting coal to china.

Cars made in China keep our stevedores on the docks employed, truck drivers employed, car dealers employed, car/truck mechanics employed, and your local mechanics employed.

Electronics made in other countries do the same with keeping the transportation drivers employed, as well as keeping stores that sell them hiring employees.

I could go on and on, and I hope you get my drift.

 

[WTJ]

I drive a Toyota made in Japan with almost 300,000 miles on it. Still uses only a half quart in the 5000 mile oil change the factory recommends.
My electronics are made in China, India, Taiwan, Mexico, and so on and so on.

Going to destroy the American Economy?

Don't think so.

Some of these third world countries have no natural resources, and they import them from places like the US.

Example: Japan has no iron ore. Prior to WWII the ore was from the US. Guess where that went.

China today is putting coal burning power plants on line at the rate of one per month to support their economy.
They have a mining industry, but the Powder River Basin Coal in Wyoming that is basically sulfur free, is in high demand, and our EPA is putting pressure on the coal burners in this country to the point they are going to drive them to go to Natural gas, that will double or triple your current electric bill, so the companies are keeping American workers going, are selling, transporting coal to china.

Cars made in China keep our stevedores on the docks employed, truck drivers employed, car dealers employed, car/truck mechanics employed, and your local mechanics employed.

Electronics made in other countries do the same with keeping the transportation drivers employed, as well as keeping stores that sell them hiring employees.

I could go on and on, and I hope you get my drift.

Correct. The destruction of the US economy is purely an internal issue. A free market will weed out inferior products. Our biggest problem is the 'Service Economy' being peddled by those looking to create social justice, or whatever is the latest ComSpeak terminology. And the EPA is one of the biggest economy killers.

 

[soonerwings]

It would seem then that a franchise is not a stand alone business and is nothing more than an extention of the parent company.

Negative. Businesses such as "Austin on Fire" (an operator of Firehouse franchises) is an independent business that has agreed to certain restrictions in return for the right to use the Firehouse Brand. If Austin on Fire fails, it fails alone. Firehouse keeps right on chugging along. The profits made by Austin on Fire are part of their income (not the parent company's) and the owner (who is one and the same as the business in U.S. tax law) is taxed at the end of the year. Franchise operators are independent businesses. On a side note, corporate owned Firehouse stores adopted the same prohibition against raising taxes in the example given.

The most simplistic definition of tax is the passing of post cost revenue from an individual to the government. When an owner, be he a sole proprietor or an LLC, pays a share of his post-cost revenue (profit) to Uncle Sam, the business (which is legally the same as the owner) faces a reduced profit and is therfore taxed. Try telling Joe the Plumber or Rocky the Bricklayer (my dad) that they don't pay taxes on their business operating income. That's the same as telling a retail/service worker that he doesn't pay taxes on his income because someone else used the services that they provided.

A flat, fixed national sales tax of 1% works for me. Since government is vastly inferior to God who only ASKS for 10%... I'd be willing to give 1% max with no other taxation ever.

I LOVE the idea of a flat consumption tax. Love it. However, I'm going to have to step out on a limb and say that 1% is nowhere near enough. Especially considering that we're in such a deep economic hole. Let's assume a GDP of 15 trillion (very optimistic). 150 Billion isn't going to be sufficient to maintain infrastructure much less provide any semblance of defense.

 

[WTJ]

Negative. Businesses such as "Austin on Fire" (an operator of Firehouse franchises) is an independent business that has agreed to certain restrictions in return for the right to use the Firehouse Brand. If Austin on Fire fails, it fails alone. Firehouse keeps right on chugging along. The profits made by Austin on Fire are part of their income (not the parent company's) and the owner (who is one and the same as the business in U.S. tax law) is taxed at the end of the year. Franchise operators are independent businesses. On a side note, corporate owned Firehouse stores adopted the same prohibition against raising taxes in the example given.




The most simplistic definition of tax is the passing of post cost revenue from an individual to the government. When an owner, be he a sole proprietor or an LLC, pays a share of his post-cost revenue (profit) to Uncle Sam, the business (which is legally the same as the owner) faces a reduced profit and is therfore taxed. Try telling Joe the Plumber or Rocky the Bricklayer (my dad) that they don't pay taxes on their business operating income. That's the same as telling a retail/service worker that he doesn't pay taxes on his income because someone else used the services that they provided.




I LOVE the idea of a flat consumption tax. Love it. However, I'm going to have to step out on a limb and say that 1% is nowhere near enough. Especially considering that we're in such a deep economic hole. Let's assume a GDP of 15 trillion (very optimistic). 150 Billion isn't going to be sufficient to maintain infrastructure much less provide any semblance of defense.

Yes, business owners pay a tax bill. Business owners, in turn, factor this into their billing of the end user. Therefore, the tax burden is passed through the business to the end user of the product or service. Additionally, taxes paid by the business owner to the suppliers are passed through. The whole tax burden falls on the end user. Thus, hidden taxes.

You are stating that Joe and Rocky NEVER increase their prices due to the taxes they pay or roll the taxes into the billing? I don't buy it.

It might be enough if the .Gov met the Constitutional mandates.

 

[dutchwrangler]

The actual debt is beyond $15trillion. There are estimates that it's as high as $200trillion.

My mention of 1% is for the central government. The States can charge whatever they want in order to compete with one another for citizens and business. 1% will ensure that the central government is SMALL and LIMITED... exactly as the Drafters and Ratifiers of the Constitution wanted it.

I maintain that it is the central government that is causing the bulk of our economic problems. For those interested and wanting to understand how government policies are causing problems I recommend reading Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. FREE PDF VERSION HERE

I simply don't understand why free men and women are so willing to put their trust in government. The only purpose of government is to protect your right to Life, Liberty & Property. This is done through a very limited list of enumerated powers to ensure that if you are harmed by someone else (an infringement upon your Property since your body is your property), then government has authority granted by we the people to seek restitution on your behalf. The government was NOT instituted among men to provide you with a economic safety net.

The fact that many vocal members of this forum continually view government at all levels as the solution for the problems simply shows that most have no understanding as to what it means to be a free, sovereign being. If at the very least one must put their faith in anything, it should be in our Creator who knows even when a sparrow falls. But to put even one iota of trust in ANY government is absurb and illogical. The only means by which government can prompt any person to do something is by PHYSICAL FORCE! As George Washington stated, "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Bastiat wrote, "For remember, that law is force, and that consequently the domain of the law cannot be properly extend beyond the domain of force."

Many on this forum view government as law. It is not. It is nothing more than an agent of the Law. The Law exists beyond government. It is an extention of the Creator. Again, Bastiat wrote, "...the aim of the law is to prevent injustice from reigning." Many on this forum advocate that the government "make a law" to correct injustice. The fact is that the Creator already provided us with the basic, necessary laws to correct injustice. Piling on additional, man made laws on top of His laws only reduces the effectiveness of the His laws. Many on this forum advocate that government use the law (man's law) to plunder. To steal. To take by threat of force and coercian and transfer to themselves.

Many of the most vocal members of this forum are hypocrits. You give Liberty lip service. But you don't have a clue what Liberty is. You wrap yourself in some goofy flag while chanting some insane pledge and taking pride in the fact that the use of military force beyond the borders somehow equates to keeping you free... without knowing what you're really doing. You advocate that government take care of you and your problems to make your life cushy and rosy. And in doing this, you give up essential Liberty for security. You give up the birthright of Freedom bestowed upon the very One who gave you life. You're essentially telling the Creator to go f*ck off because you don't trust Him, but you do trust your fellow man. You're a humanist even though many claim to be believers in Him. You're hypocrits. You've sold your souls to the enemy of the Creator.

 

[reddog1]

I trust my Government, hell, I can WAIT to get the next Flu shot, and the next anti-epidemic shot! I sometimes go to Walgreens, just to see if they have any new shots.

The EPA has now decided the hay is a polloutant. Farmers have to pay an extra tax on each bale they bale.

Who needs farmers when we have BigAgra!!

Who needs lemonade stands, and Girl Scout Cookies?

We can live without all that.

I love being radiated when I fly, and felt up.

Now when I go to an NFL game too.

They are just protecting us!!

Next they should take our guns, then we would have no more crime!!