Guns at work

[Tanis143]

I'd like a citation on state law that says an employer can search your person or your belongings without your consent, even on company property. Now, company policy may say one thing, but if they're not LEO and they don't have a warrant, they're not going in my backpack. If they attempt, there will be a physical altercation to prevent their illegal search of my personal property.

Now... they can fire you at will if you refuse, of course... but I have never seen anything saying it is legal for them to seize your personal property for a search. Which would include taking my backpack away from my personal control. I could be wrong, but like I said, I'd like to see a state law that says so.

<edited to add> Lockers I see the same as a company vehicle - their locker, they can search. But they're not going inside a backpack or something in my personal possession, any more than they're going inside my wallet or my undershorts. I'm jus' sayin'.

It all depends. For instance: My company provides a tool bag for me to use on the job, along with providing me all the tools. However, after 12 years of carrying said tool bag my back started to give me problems (carry 40+ lbs in your right hand for that time period and you'll understand). So, I bought myself a technicians backpack. Now, the backpack is my property, but I'm using it to house my company's tools. Therefore they have the right to search my backpack to inventory the tools.

The same could be said for a toolbox if you provide your own and it houses company owned tools. So its not a simple "yes they do" or "no they don't".

 

[dennishoddy]

I'd like a citation on state law that says an employer can search your person or your belongings without your consent, even on company property. Now, company policy may say one thing, but if they're not LEO and they don't have a warrant, they're not going in my backpack. If they attempt, there will be a physical altercation to prevent their illegal search of my personal property.

Now... they can fire you at will if you refuse, of course... but I have never seen anything saying it is legal for them to seize your personal property for a search. Which would include taking my backpack away from my personal control. I could be wrong, but like I said, I'd like to see a state law that says so.

<edited to add> Lockers I see the same as a company vehicle - their locker, they can search. But they're not going inside a backpack or something in my personal possession, any more than they're going inside my wallet or my undershorts. I'm jus' sayin'.

You have the absolute right to not allow them in your backpack, and they also have the absolute right to fire you if you don't allow it in a fire at will state if its written into policy and you sign an agreement when starting employment like most companies require folks to do before being hired. My last employer required an agreement to be signed annually. (I'm using "you" as an objective term, and not directing my comments at you personally for the record)

 

[Tanis143]

You have the absolute right to not allow them in your backpack, and they also have the absolute right to fire you if you don't allow it in a fire at will state if its written into policy and you sign an agreement when starting employment like most companies require folks to do before being hired. My last employer required an agreement to be signed annually. (I'm using "you" as an objective term, and not directing my comments at you personally for the record)

Here is a good read on the subject.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter5-5.html

 

[dennishoddy]

Here is a good read on the subject.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter5-5.html

That's general law, not specific to Oklahoma employment laws.

 

[Tanis143]

That's general law, not specific to Oklahoma employment laws.

True, but it covers federal law. And so far I've not found anything in the OK law that contradicts it.

 

[Tanis143]

Title 40: 200: Search of employee vehicles:

Employers of this state that conduct employee-owned vehicle searches of its employees shall conduct such search on the property of the employer only. Searches that are conducted on property not owned or rented by the employer shall require a search warrant issued according to law.

So, in Oklahoma, employers can search your vehicle if they have a valid reason to do so. I would assume if they have the right to do this, then they can search your backpack, purse, tool chest, etc, as long as its on property owned by the employer.

 

[dennishoddy]

The issue is with Ok being a fire at will state. Others aren't.
Before the company accepts you for employment, most, at least the ones I've worked for required one to sign an agreement that your person/locker/tool box/lunch box, and your personal vehicle could be searched at any time at the will of the company.
Presumably to search for stolen company items.
If one doesn't allow the search, the company has the right to fire you, but you do have the right to not submit to the search.
One of our businesses in town in Ponca, Conoco and a major lumber company Weyerhaeuser fought all the way to SCOTUS to keep guns out of their parking lot. They lost, but the clause that guns are allowed to be in a parking lot available to employees is pretty much ignored by those two companies. They will fire and litigate until your retirement savings are wasted.
As a side note. The company I retired from had a no guns policy, but when we went through a major security overhaul after 911, I asked one of the security guards how he was going to defend his post in the event of a breach with a 9mm tupperware gun.
His reply was he was going to get on the radio and head for the parking lot where the real firepower was located.

 

[Tanis143]

In other words you don't per say have a "right" to refuse the search, however you can refuse them access. At which point they can terminate you and ask you to leave the premises.

So again, it comes down to do you want to risk losing your job? If you are fearful enough that some disgruntled ex-employee or customer would come in to do bodily harm, it might be worth the risk. However, if you feel secure enough it might not be worth it. That determination is up to the individual.

 

[Tanis143]

Trust me, if I could I would carry on the job. I have to walk into backyards all the time, many times without being able to make homeowner contact (easement laws allow this, though my company gives us some discretion leeway). I've had times where I've knocked on the door, got no answer, went to the backyard only to have the homeowner come out yelling and screaming at me. When I told them I knocked, they said they saw me and didn't want to answer the door. I've had dogs let out on me (once with the homeowner aware I was back there). My job puts me in some situations where I wish I had a gun for self protection. My one saving grace is I rarely work on the bad side of Tulsa.

 

[dennishoddy]

In other words you don't per say have a "right" to refuse the search, however you can refuse them access. At which point they can terminate you and ask you to leave the premises.

So again, it comes down to do you want to risk losing your job? If you are fearful enough that some disgruntled ex-employee or customer would come in to do bodily harm, it might be worth the risk. However, if you feel secure enough it might not be worth it. That determination is up to the individual.

Correct. That's why I said earlier that I pocket carried a mouse gun on me at all times, even at work and never even told my best friend.
It was my personal secret, only known to me, and I was ready to look for further employment had I been discovered or asked for a search.

Trust me, if I could I would carry on the job. I have to walk into backyards all the time, many times without being able to make homeowner contact (easement laws allow this, though my company gives us some discretion leeway). I've had times where I've knocked on the door, got no answer, went to the backyard only to have the homeowner come out yelling and screaming at me. When I told them I knocked, they said they saw me and didn't want to answer the door. I've had dogs let out on me (once with the homeowner aware I was back there). My job puts me in some situations where I wish I had a gun for self protection. My one saving grace is I rarely work on the bad side of Tulsa.

If I were working outside in residential areas, there is no way in hell I wouldn't have something that goes bang on me. At least a big can of bear spray.
Check into Kel Tec P3AT or Ruger model .380's if your wanting to deep conceal.