HD Shotgun Thoughts

[Okie4570]

People miss turkeys all the time because they point and not aim......just as people miss clays because they aim and don't point and follow. Shot string discussion doesn't apply to meth head coming at you down the hall way.

They make high viz front sights for a reason, turkey heads and SD.........because most shooters don't shoot enough to routinely be able to throw up a shotgun and hit a guy in the the second shirt button down.
You've shot enough cowboy action that it's second nature to you....you're ahead of the game compared to most aviator41

 

[SMS]

There is a world, and your life's, difference between tom turkey and a tweaker.

A shotgun being used for self defense, with a good self defense load, is much more effective when aimed, period. No amount of wing shooting articles by sport hunters and gamers will change that.

Individual skill can certainly play a factor in the ability to point, swing, or whatever, but when engaging another human, the most effective method from the word go would be to aim your weapon, regardless of whether it's a shotgun or not.

Find me single article by a recognized combat shotgun trainer/user who recommends not aiming...

Clint Smith on SD/HD shotgun aiming: http://bearingarms.com/overcoming-m...bafbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=baupdate

 

[HoLeChit]

For the sake of discussion... What are we talking about when aiming? What are we talking about pointing? I Hear pointing and I think Kentucky windage and using instinct more than your sights to hit the target. Aiming I think of using sight picture/sight alignment, so on and so forth.

 

[SMS]

Pointing, in this context, is looking down your barrel but focusing on the target while keeping the gun moving. It is a well accepted and effective method for wing/clay shooting with birdshot.

Aiming, is aiming. Sight picture/sight alignment used to deliver an accurate shot at a precise point. Given the relatively small size of a shotgun pattern at close range...it's the most sensible method, for most people.

Then there is "Point Shooting" for rifles/handguns etc...which has been the source of tens of thousands of pages of Internet debates over the years. I ain't getting into that lol.

 

[FOG]

I'm new here but I'll play.

I believe training is paramount regardless of the type of weapon b/c simple things like working the safety (let alone aiming) is much easier said than done when confronted with adversity. It has to be second nature, with little or no thinking involved.

For example, Many novice bowhunters go to pieces the first time a deer presents a shot. They draw, put their pin on brown hide, shoot and hope for the best. After a time, they learn to subconsciously "pick a hair" to aim at without much thought, i.e., they go on auto-pilot. That's talking about deer, I'd imagine when confronted with a human threat the intensity would be multiplied several times.

That's why the military trains in repetition so when the 'fog of war' comes over you, your instincts will kick in and you'll perform as you should, theoretically anyway.

Oh, and to answer the original question, I have a pump action loaded with buckshot beneath my bed along with a pistol hidden nearby and the AR is only a few steps away in my armory closet.

 

[druryj]

I've never been one to "short stroke". I always give it all I got!

Some of us can't help the short stroke thing so watch it pal.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[HoLeChit]

Pointing, in this context, is looking down your barrel but focusing on the target while keeping the gun moving. It is a well accepted and effective method for wing/clay shooting with birdshot.

Aiming, is aiming. Sight picture/sight alignment used to deliver an accurate shot at a precise point. Given the relatively small size of a shotgun pattern at close range...it's the most sensible method, for most people.

Then there is "Point Shooting" for rifles/handguns etc...which has been the source of tens of thousands of pages of Internet debates over the years. I ain't getting into that lol.

I beg to differ with the exclusivity of pointing being only with wing shooting a clays, but I will play along. Everybody is different.

I won't argue the fact that buckshot makes quite a small pattern at close range, that is a proven fact. In most cases you won't have to worry about Kentucky windage when shooting a guy grabbing up your good silver or digging through your tools, The biggest concern is that you aren't accidentally blowing holes in walls and making sure you are eliminating the threat efficiently.

 

[turkeyrun]

As to the OP, I would sell the Mags and do your mods on the 870. There is a reason military and police use and trust it.
Second, I WAS a proponent of buckshot until I took a class back in '88.
Dr. Red Duke was a guest speaker and the question of HD loads came up.
His opinion based on 25 yrs of ER gun shot wound repair;
Buckshot, extremely effective and over penetration/ wall penetration too risky. Recommend not using.

4s, 5s 6s, 7 1/2s all effective at high velocity loadings. Best load is 5s @ 1300+ fps. His words, "it is like straining their guts through a screen. I can't fix that many holes."

Kent makes a 12 ga. 1 3/8 oz 5s @1500 2 3/4"
My 870 sits by the bed loaded with 9 rounds. At 10 yards it will not penetrate a typical double sided Sheetrock wall.
I feel adequately protected and the 1911 and .357 revolver are on the night stand,just in case.

 

[aviator41]

As to the OP, I would sell the Mags and do your mods on the 870. There is a reason military and police use and trust it.
Second, I WAS a proponent of buckshot until I took a class back in '88.
Dr. Red Duke was a guest speaker and the question of HD loads came up.
His opinion based on 25 yrs of ER gun shot wound repair;
Buckshot, extremely effective and over penetration/ wall penetration too risky. Recommend not using.

4s, 5s 6s, 7 1/2s all effective at high velocity loadings. Best load is 5s @ 1300+ fps. His words, "it is like straining their guts through a screen. I can't fix that many holes."

Kent makes a 12 ga. 1 3/8 oz 5s @1500 2 3/4"
My 870 sits by the bed loaded with 9 rounds. At 10 yards it will not penetrate a typical double sided Sheetrock wall.
I feel adequately protected and the 1911 and .357 revolver are on the night stand,just in case.

Exactly. So far, there has been nothing in this post thas hs compelled me to change out the ammo in the shotguns available to my family in the event of a home invasion. They all still have 7.5 1200fps target loads in them. I've done the penetration test with sheetrock. In fact, it would be an excellent photo essay project this summer.

 

[O4L]

As to the OP, I would sell the Mags and do your mods on the 870. There is a reason military and police use and trust it.
Second, I WAS a proponent of buckshot until I took a class back in '88.
Dr. Red Duke was a guest speaker and the question of HD loads came up.
His opinion based on 25 yrs of ER gun shot wound repair;
Buckshot, extremely effective and over penetration/ wall penetration too risky. Recommend not using.

4s, 5s 6s, 7 1/2s all effective at high velocity loadings. Best load is 5s @ 1300+ fps. His words, "it is like straining their guts through a screen. I can't fix that many holes."

Kent makes a 12 ga. 1 3/8 oz 5s @1500 2 3/4"
My 870 sits by the bed loaded with 9 rounds. At 10 yards it will not penetrate a typical double sided Sheetrock wall.
I feel adequately protected and the 1911 and .357 revolver are on the night stand,just in case.

Thanks for the post.

This is what I had decided to do shortly after starting this thread.