I Guess Ex-Cops And Vets Are On The Fritz With This Administration

[TerryMiller]

I don't disagree with you... I think part of the concern is that because of the high percentage in the sample people see that as very troubling and would want to know the "why". This may come across wrong since I don't believe violence should be the answer, but one would hope that any given group military/leo in this case would not have a higher disposition towards it. The rate is what might be cause for alarm.

My guess would be that the LEO's and military have taken an oath. Most still live by that oath, thus they may be more likely to be part of a "movement" to restore rights.

 

[dennishoddy]

I think it goes like this for the 4 services when ordered to secure a building.
The Marines flatten it with artillery and air, assaults the position and posts guards on the rubble.
The Army plans for a couple of weeks, gathers intel and finally assaults the building with Rangers and S.F. takes prisoners for further intel and uses the building as a headquarters.
The Navy assigns a fire watch, makes sure the lights are off and locks the doors.
The Air force makes sure the building is up to code, has the proper amount of handicap accessible parking spaces and bathrooms and secures a 30 year lease on the property.

My experience is that the Marines say fix bayonets and charge that machine gun nest.
The Army says let's call in these F-4's that are on station to drop some napalm and HE to eliminate that machine gun nest before assaulting the position.
The Navy sits offshore to shell those that are wanting to kill Americans and bring in Marines to attack machine gun nests.
The AF protects those on the ground from others on the ground and those that may attack from overhead.
I don't GAF what their political affiliation is when they are doing their jobs.
(I do know your post was in jest for the record. )

 

[Rez Exelon]

My guess would be that the LEO's and military have taken an oath. Most still live by that oath, thus they may be more likely to be part of a "movement" to restore rights.

Not an outlandish theory, but then it raises another question or two about discernment. For example, what would prevent someone trying to do America harm from creating a movement based on a pretense such as election fraud, a Deep State, an anonymous person called "Q" or anything else to try to radicalize people into thinking they needed to overthrow a democratically elected government?

Obviously the response to that statement is going to be extremely dependent on how one sees the world, gets their news, and makes decisions.

 

[TerryMiller]

Not an outlandish theory, but then it raises another question or two about discernment. For example, what would prevent someone trying to do America harm from creating a movement based on a pretense such as election fraud, a Deep State, an anonymous person called "Q" or anything else to try to radicalize people into thinking they needed to overthrow a democratically elected government?

Obviously the response to that statement is going to be extremely dependent on how one sees the world, gets their news, and makes decisions.

I noticed you said nothing about the violence and damage caused by BLM and Antifa this past year, all the way from Oregon and Washington to Minnesota and beyond. Does the actions of any of those people not concern you? And, what of the stories of members of Antifa or BLM actually being the ones to instigate the events in Washington, D.C. on January 6? You seem to want to question the motives of LEO's and veterans, but say nothing of those on the left.

And, speaking of "those on the left," I'd venture that a number of those in D.C. were "left-leaning" as well as "right-leaning." They just may have been Democrats that didn't like what went on during the elections.

 

[Rez Exelon]

I noticed you said nothing about the violence and damage caused by BLM and Antifa this past year, all the way from Oregon and Washington to Minnesota and beyond. Does the actions of any of those people not concern you? And, what of the stories of members of Antifa or BLM actually being the ones to instigate the events in Washington, D.C. on January 6? You seem to want to question the motives of LEO's and veterans, but say nothing of those on the left.

And, speaking of "those on the left," I'd venture that a number of those in D.C. were "left-leaning" as well as "right-leaning." They just may have been Democrats that didn't like what went on during the elections.

Well, this thread wasn't really focused there, so no I didn't address that topic. The thread was about "ex-cops and vets"

As to whether Antifa and BLM were the cause? I have yet to see hard evidence that would swing me to believing that. I know the boards favorite phrase seems to be "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then oh wait! It was really Antifa and BLM the whole time" but I don't see evidence. I see a lot of them on here being Schrodingers Antifa. Simultaneously stupid enough to barely be called brutish thugs with a tenuous grasp on reality, but also somehow these omnipotent masterminds capable of being the undetectable instigators of every major event that makes the right look bad.

I do see lots of documentation of the folks at the Capitol on Jan 6th falling into two categories. 1. Trump supporters. 2. Trump supporters with bad intent. If I'm wrong I'd welcome any articles and evidence from real news sources with credible evidence (as compared to the "articles and evidence" people usually send with a bunch of feelings and personal assessments).

Back on topic, my original point stands --- Military and LEO's were represented in the Capitol riot at a much higher rate than they exists in genpop. That is a documented fact, and a reason to look at the situation and ask "why" they are represented at such a high rate. I don't have an answer to that, and don't feel like it is disparaging in any way to the law abiding member of the military/LEO community to ask that question.

 

[TerryMiller]

Well, this thread wasn't really focused there, so no I didn't address that topic. The thread was about "ex-cops and vets"

As to whether Antifa and BLM were the cause? I have yet to see hard evidence that would swing me to believing that. I know the boards favorite phrase seems to be "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then oh wait! It was really Antifa and BLM the whole time" but I don't see evidence. I see a lot of them on here being Schrodingers Antifa. Simultaneously stupid enough to barely be called brutish thugs with a tenuous grasp on reality, but also somehow these omnipotent masterminds capable of being the undetectable instigators of every major event that makes the right look bad.

I do see lots of documentation of the folks at the Capitol on Jan 6th falling into two categories. 1. Trump supporters. 2. Trump supporters with bad intent. If I'm wrong I'd welcome any articles and evidence from real news sources with credible evidence (as compared to the "articles and evidence" people usually send with a bunch of feelings and personal assessments).

Back on topic, my original point stands --- Military and LEO's were represented in the Capitol riot at a much higher rate than they exists in genpop. That is a documented fact, and a reason to look at the situation and ask "why" they are represented at such a high rate. I don't have an answer to that, and don't feel like it is disparaging in any way to the law abiding member of the military/LEO community to ask that question.

OK. You asked for "articles and evidence from real news sources with credible evidence," so I'll ask for your "documented fact."

 

[DavidMcmillan]

How many liberals have a tendency for being a bit radical and even angry if their beliefs are even slightly questioned? And if they are in a group...look out!

As do us conservatives...

 

[Rez Exelon]

OK. You asked for "articles and evidence from real news sources with credible evidence," so I'll ask for your "documented fact."

Last estimates I saw on the veteran side ranged around 20M with sources from the VA, DoD and others all being +/- on the topic. An example there is:
https://www.statista.com/topics/3450/veterans-in-the-united-states/

On the LEO side, most numbers hover around 700k active, without a whole lot of statistics on total former. But heck, let's give a 20x margin and say that it's 20M as well.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191694/number-of-law-enforcement-officers-in-the-us/

That'd combine to 40 million in the US, which I think rounds up generously to be on the safe side. The population of the US, depending on results of the census, is estimated around 330 millon, with some margin depending on the source of estimation. So even on the vastly overestimated high side, that gives us a total current/former estimate of around 12% of the US population whereas the early numbers are suggesting that 20-25% of the people at the Capitol were current/former LEO's with estimates varying at publish date as new data continues to come in.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...charged-in-capitol-riot-have-military-history

The numbers in that last article, for reference, cite the percentages as 7% and 20% for genpop versus the 6th.

 

[Glocktogo]

I think it goes like this for the 4 services when ordered to secure a building.
The Marines flatten it with artillery and air, assaults the position and posts guards on the rubble.
The Army plans for a couple of weeks, gathers intel and finally assaults the building with Rangers and S.F. takes prisoners for further intel and uses the building as a headquarters.
The Navy assigns a fire watch, makes sure the lights are off and locks the doors.
The Air force makes sure the building is up to code, has the proper amount of handicap accessible parking spaces and bathrooms and secures a 30 year lease on the property.

AF always had the best BEQ and chow halls, so I never minded working with them.

 

[Mos Eisley]

How did this devolve into a USAF vs. ARMY/NAVY/MARINE thing?
Signed,
Butt Hurt USAF Combat Vet

What about SPACE FORCE? Are they gonna be the new whipping dog?