Illegal Interstate Transfer of a Handgun. Will anyone actually do anything?

[Johnny]

Yeah but it sure gets the NSAs panties in a wad.

I have this list of words. I just send random texts containing the offending words to random phone numbers.

Me: Party at toms house. We are gonna drink some flashbangs. HRT is gonna hit the scene. This party is gonna be at Defcon 2. It will be the bomb. Obama can't even throw a party like this.

Random Number: ???

Me: Oops Sorry wrong number.

 

[reddog1]

I have this list of words. I just send random texts containing the offending words to random phone numbers.

Me: Party at toms house. We are gonna drink some flashbangs. HRT is gonna hit the scene. This party is gonna be at Defcon 2. It will be the bomb. Obama can't even throw a party like this.

Random Number: ???

Me: Oops Sorry wrong number.

 

[uncle money bags]

The law is clear: it is an illegal transfer.
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-21.pdf
An unlicensed (no FFL) person is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an unlicensed individual in another state. The only exception is bequests. Transfer can be done through an FFL.

Thank you for the correction and reference. I appreciate the learning opportunity.

 

[ratski]

Okay, pardon my ignorance but what effect does this...

... have on the scenario? How would it be different if it were not so?

The effect here is that both parties are committing an illegal act and I believe that it is considered a felony.
The person with the CC permit stands to loose the permit even it they only get a slap on the wrist for the offense.

Dave

 

[ratski]

I do not see the illegality here. You are alluding to several shady things without giving us the whole story. However, the specific question of: man asks son from another state to buy a gun and bring to said other state to give to the dad is not an illegal transfer of a gun across state lines. Is there a 4473 involved on the sons end? I could see a problem in that case. Is the purchase an effort to conceal the true recipient of the firearm? I could see a problem in that case as well.


Now, since thats out of the way. Whats the rest of the story?

Actually it is an illegal transfer. The only person who can accomplish this is an FFL. An FFL has to be involved on the recipient's end and paperwork has to be filled out. A non-FFL can send a handgun to and out of state FFL. The FFL has to log it into his book as received and then log it out of his book and have the 4473 paperwork to show where it went.

Giving a handgun to someone in the SAME state is not an issue. That changes when you cross state lines.

Dave

 

[ratski]

It is also a straw purchase if the buyer is not the actual buyer of the firearm. There is no requirement for either party to be a prohibited person.

Dad: "Hey son, Here's $500, go buy me XXX" = Straw Purchase regardless if dad is prohibited or not.

Hate to disagree and get off topic, but that is not what a straw purchase is.
It is perfectly legal for me to purchase a firearm for my dad, mom, friend, etc as long as I have no knowledge that they are a prohibited person and I am doing it to circumvent the 4473.
A Straw Purchase comes into play when the purchaser has reason to believe that the person that they are buying the firearm for cannot legal purchase the firearm themselves.

Dave

 

[Dave70968]

1. It is a straw purchase if the recipient is a prohibited person and the buyer knows this. That is NOT what I am talking about here. Although that could in fact be the case, I am not aware of it.

Actually, it's a straw purchase if the buyer is not the actual purchaser, regardless of whether the actual purchaser is prohibited. A bona fide gift is not a straw purchase because the buyer is the actual purchaser; his donative intent distinguishes that from a case where he's getting paid back for it.

Edited to add:
A copy of Form 4473 is available at http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf; see the answer to question 11.a, specifically the bit about Messrs. Jones and Smith.

2. The purchase of a handgun and subsequent transfer through an FFL in Oklahoma and in Texas is NOT what I am talking about here.

What I am talking about here is one person in one state purchasing a handgun and driving across state lines with the handgun and giving it to someone else.

No dealers involved.

Dave

It's still illegal. The transfer of a firearm--any firearm--across state lines must go to an FFL holder (for which a C&R FFL counts if the firearm is on the C&R list). It need not be from an FFL, though many dealers maintain a policy of refusing to accept interstate transfers from non-FFLs.

Edited to add:
ATF has posted a general FAQ at https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/0813-firearms-top-12-qas.pdf. See question no. 4.

 

[cmhbob]

If you were really concerned about the safety of the 3d party, or just getting LE to look at the situation, I'd report it either to OSBI or the Texas Ranger. Let them run with it and/or contact the feds if need be.

 

[toehanus]

Not to be a jerk (well maybe), but when I read this it makes me think of those who scream "we just new to enforce the gun laws we already have". Unless the son is giving dad a gun to so dad can murder somebody why is it illegal to give him the stinkin gun? For that matter, why is it anybody's business? Again, unless somebody's life is in danger leave it alone. Conditioned minds. There I said it!

 

[Glocktogo]

If this gets reported to BATFE, they're gonna be pissed! They don't appreciate competition when it comes to illegally transferring arms across imaginary geographical boundaries!