It doesn't have to be us vs them

[tulsanewb]

I am going to get flamed for this, I know that already. But I see the bashing of "liberals" here every day. This doesn't help us promote firearms, it just makes the pro-gun community come off exactly as those who aren't familiar with guns or people who shoot guns expect them to... hostile, hot-headed, and antagonistic. I know more "liberals" who enjoy shooting than I can count, but they are put off by sites like these. We would be in a MUCH stronger position if we welcomed all pro-gun people and worked to educate those who aren't. From my experience, 90% of anti-gun sentiment comes from those who have never fired one. In Oklahoma this seems absurd, but in many urban locations it's just normal. The only guns many see are in the movies. I have taken numerous people who are strongly anti-gun shooting... and every single one of them has had fun. Did they all change their minds instantly? No. But they do view guns in a different, less hostile light now than before. I ask you this: What happens when a "liberal" decides they want to protect their family and learn about guns? They turn to the internet. We could be a place where they know they can come and learn, or a place that pushes them away. I know which I think is more productive. No one is saying everyone has to agree on all politics, this nation was founded on divergent views, but we are all under one constitution. No one view is right (despite how strongly one may feel). If we can just agree to disagree on other issues and realize this IS a gun forum and work together on gun rights and education... we will be a much stronger community.

Take a look at this, these could be our allies:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/gun-club-liberals-challenges-nra/story?id=22557321


My flame-suit is on, and my fire extinguisher ready. Fire away.

Moderators: I hought the news post makes this a relevant 2a political happening and picked this category for this post, please move it if not.

 

[uncle money bags]

C'mon, this site is one of the best examples of disparate political views coming together in defense of the 2nd Amendment as I have ever seen. I have had numerous conversations on this site with people who find my political beliefs abhorrent, and I theirs. Those conversations have been contentious and sometimes nasty, but they have never affected our belief in defending the 2nd Amendment.

Seriously, even Ignernt, ezbake and I can agree on that im certain. If someone is turned off of this site because they cant handle the discussion then they are not ready to make the compromises necessary to to defend the 2nd and are probably not ready to join the fold.

 

[rawhide]

I agree this is a discussion worth having. My own discussions with people have revealed much of what the article states. Many liberals I'm in contact with regularly are pro-gun. We may disagree on levels of restrictions but they are certainly pro-gun or pro-personal defense. I've had this discussion with OK2A members as well. There is no reason that our meetings should be mostly conservative Republicans and independents. Rights are rights.

Position from the Liberal Gun Club includes:

"Additional regulations on lawful gun owners are over-prescribed political placebos that fail to cure the underlying systemic societal problems that are the root causes of violence. Instead of window-dressing 'solutions' like so-called 'assault weapons' bans and magazine capacity restrictions, we support root cause mitigation for violence prevention: stronger mental health care, addressing poverty, homelessness and unemployment."

We may disagree on the methods of solving the problem but sure looks like common ground to me.

 

[vvvvvvv]

Rights are rights.

Yep.

 

[okietom]

Liberals are way more likely to agree with stupid ideas on gun control. Like you said they are predominately uninformed on the issue of guns. Uninformed voters like that put little thought or reason into their opinions. Their opinions are formed by emotion. Gun control is not the only issue that causes many liberals to react emotionally too.

So we should hold their hands and make friends with them? When they support hair brained ideas to take our guns away.

 

[ignerntbend]

C'mon, this site is one of the best examples of disparate political views coming together in defense of the 2nd Amendment as I have ever seen. I have had numerous conversations on this site with people who find my political beliefs abhorrent, and I theirs. Those conversations have been contentious and sometimes nasty, but they have never affected our belief in defending the 2nd Amendment.

Seriously, even Ignernt, ezbake and I can agree on that im certain. If someone is turned off of this site because they cant handle the discussion then they are not ready to make the compromises necessary to to defend the 2nd and are probably not ready to join the fold.

I'm flattered that anyone would throw ezbake and me in the river in the same tow sack. He's a conservative. He only passes for a liberal around here. He's a Lutheran missionary who actually does things.

 

[tulsanewb]

Liberals are way more likely to agree with stupid ideas on gun control. Like you said they are predominately uninformed on the issue of guns. Uninformed voters like that put little thought or reason into their opinions. Their opinions are formed by emotion. Gun control is not the only issue that causes many liberals to react emotionally too.

So we should hold their hands and make friends with them? When they support hair brained ideas to take our guns away.

That is a trait of people, not something that can be labeled a liberal or conservative trait. I do think we should embrace and teach all people about safe gun ownership. Wouldn't you rather have republicans and large numbers of democrats both against new gun laws instead of an us vs them mentality?

 

[TedKennedy]

I'll take it a step farther, maybe we should embrace some of the liberal ideas of less government intervention. Yes, I know most of the Moveon.org stuff is all about getting the State to make us "equal" and all that, but the conservative side is all about the State getting us all wrapped in the flag and Mom and apple pie.

Maybe common ground would be getting the State out of our lives so we can live however we choose?

 

[mugsy]

Having been born, raised and college educated in New York City - the Mecca of Liberalism, I empathize with your statement. Objectively it's true that there is no reason people of any persuasion cannot agree on key issues and agree to disagree on the rest. I also agree that on this site there is sometimes ridiculous caricaturing of Liberals, or really anyone perceived as opposing the 2A in the very broadest sense. However, I have never seen anyone told they can't stay and play, nor have I seen the kind of nasty venom aimed at Liberals that I routinely see from my grad-school educated, self-described broad-minded Liberal friends on Facebook and other places. One is far more likely to be engaged politely here than on most Liberal dominated sites.
The only time I have seen true poison being spewed here was when one member insisted on referring to New Yotkers as "cockroaches" in a manner that reminded me of Hotel Rwanda. I wish that had generated at least a warning in the way that even very (IMO) minor perceived anti-police sentiment brings banning.

Having said all that, there are some areas where strongly Pro-2A folks tend to agree and you will see more of that here - just as we also regularly see 2A supporter fault lines about non-gun related "libertarian" issues. It just comes with the territory.

 

[ignerntbend]

I've been bant numerous times. All I mean by that is that I've been bant numerous times