It doesn't have to be us vs them

[WessonOil]

Actually, it's not liberals myself and many others have an issue with, it's socialists.

There's a difference.

Socialists will always want to place a "Big Government" candidate in office, and those candidates are historically anti-gun and anti-bill of rights.

You can also be a Republican and not be conservative.

I can be considered "liberal" by my laid back attitudes towards religion, same sex marriage, tolerance of other's lifestyles, etc.

My issue is more with a blue collar union worker who votes pro-Democrat every four years and places anti-gun presidents in the White House for the sake of a paycheck, than a granola eating "hippy."

It's why I don't have any sympathy for union gun workers whose jobs are moving to gun friendly states.

 

[okietom]

I'll take it a step farther, maybe we should embrace some of the liberal ideas of less government intervention. Yes, I know most of the Moveon.org stuff is all about getting the State to make us "equal" and all that, but the conservative side is all about the State getting us all wrapped in the flag and Mom and apple pie.

Maybe common ground would be getting the State out of our lives so we can live however we choose?

Less government is not a liberal idea.

 

[caojyn]

Part of the issue is that Republican is no longer synonymous conservatism.

 

[okietom]

That is a trait of people, not something that can be labeled a liberal or conservative trait. I do think we should embrace and teach all people about safe gun ownership. Wouldn't you rather have republicans and large numbers of democrats both against new gun laws instead of an us vs them mentality?

That is a trait that many liberals have. It is a trait of liberalism. Too many of the liberal ideas come from people with this trait.

Gun control laws are from ideas that come from fear which is an emotion. Tell me about a gun control idea that comes from reason. You know, like enforcing the current laws. There are no new gun laws proposed that are from reasonable ideas. They all come from emotions. They also come from the liberal side of politics. It would be nice to educate them but they don't pay attention long enough.

 

[nofearfactor]

I grew up surrounded by both sides in my own family so Im used to it. Its actually my older brothers job to teach people how to study other people.

I was born and raised at the farthest most southern end of liberalism vs conservatism that you can get in North America in San Diego. My father had left Oklahoma early 50s to go be a Marine and stuck around another 20 years after he was discharged to run a few small businesses before retiring to Dallas. My mom said F it when I was about 10 and took my lil brother and went back to Osage county, she did not like California. My dad never lost his Okie upbringing when in Cali, he was a lifelong outdoorsman, pro gun all the way, die hard Republican. I pretty much always sided with the old man politically vs my older brother and 2 sisters who felt the need to argue with our father continuously about his stance on guns as well as his hard right conservative politics. When I moved up north to the Sierra Nevada mountains after HS graduation I found hard working blue collar people who were alot more conservative and like minded with what I had been taught than down south in the valley. Felt the same feeling when in Oklahoma visiting my mother and relatives and always planned to move to Oklahoma some day. My older siblings though just allowed southern Cali high school to mellow them out too much or something. Today one sister is a movie industry worker living by the ocean in Huntington Beach, older brother has a PHD and is a professor of sociology at U Cal/Monterey and a longtime bay area martial arts instructor, other older sister has been in NYC the last 30 years. All are extreme anti gun, extreme leftists. We always have pretty lively dinner table and after dinner discussions but we part friendly and usually just agree that we disagree. Usually.

 

[caojyn]

That is a trait that many liberals have. It is a trait of liberalism. Too many of the liberal ideas come from people with this trait.

Gun control laws are from ideas that come from fear which is an emotion. Tell me about a gun control idea that comes from reason. You know, like enforcing the current laws. There are no new gun laws proposed that are from reasonable ideas. They all come from emotions. They also come from the liberal side of politics. It would be nice to educate them but they don't pay attention long enough.

May want to proof read, that last paragraph is pretty brutal.

 

[Old Fart]

For years we have made remarks about how these youngin's don't know anything. Now we're seeing the result.

 

[tulsanewb]

That is a trait that many liberals have. It is a trait of liberalism. Too many of the liberal ideas come from people with this trait.

Gun control laws are from ideas that come from fear which is an emotion. Tell me about a gun control idea that comes from reason. You know, like enforcing the current laws. There are no new gun laws proposed that are from reasonable ideas. They all come from emotions. They also come from the liberal side of politics. It would be nice to educate them but they don't pay attention long enough.

You are entitled to that opinion, but I see this on both sides. Many issues with conservatives are also emotional. Statements like "they don't pay attention" serve to do nothing but belittle people. Both sides have the same full spectrum of everyday people, none of whom are infallible. In the end, the us vs them is a losing proposition as, like it or not, the them is growing faster than the "us". If we at least try to incorporate and show "them" that gun owners aren't crazy, hot-heads and shooting can be safe and fun, we may get a few more people supporting gun rights instead of opposing. I would suggest looking at recent facebook posts by the Liberal Gun Club and Liberal Rifle Association... I suspect you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[okietom]

Statements like, no one needs an assault rifle, or no one needs more than ten rounds, or you have to register your car why not your gun also belittle people.

If they were paying attention they would know that crime rates are higher in places with stricter gun laws.

Is that statement incorrect? It may be inflamatory. But I am sure that it is correct. There are many more like that one too.

 

[vvvvvvv]

If they were paying attention they would know that crime rates are higher in places with stricter gun laws.

Studies that control for variables such as gun ownership rates find no statistically significant correlation either way.