It doesn't have to be us vs them

[0311]

The OP must not be a frequent flyer, because OSA is most definitely conservative only by the most liberal terms.

 

[okietom]

John Lott disagrees. Which study are you going to believe?

 

[tulsanewb]

The OP must not be a frequent flyer, because OSA is most definitely conservative only by the most liberal terms.

I am not trying to label OSA as conservative or liberal; merely to encourage outreach and education over hostility and isolation here and in the real world. I have seen many who were anti-gun become much less so after shooting a 22 for a day and having friendly talks with people at a gun range, without even talking about guns. Both sides have this image of the other: anti-gun people see pro-gun as trigger happy, wild west wannabes. I think we all know how pro-gun people see anti-gun people. But I have seen when both sides are around each other and friendly, the stereotypes vanish and people see each other as just people. This can often sway how people view the gun issue as well, in a favorable light. Just like a pro-gun person yelling and screaming and threatening (random example) could reinforce the stereotype and put all gun owners in a bad light.

 

[vvvvvvv]

John Lott disagrees. Which study are you going to believe?

Lott has been pretty thoroughly discredited as a serious researcher. When evaluating studies for merit, I look at how well they controlled for other variables. Even the correlation between "More Guns, Less Crime" doesn't hold up much past a particular point in time.

Also, see Mary Rosh.

 

[0311]

I am not trying to label OSA as conservative or liberal; merely to encourage outreach and education over hostility and isolation here and in the real world. I have seen many who were anti-gun become much less so after shooting a 22 for a day and having friendly talks with people at a gun range, without even talking about guns. Both sides have this image of the other: anti-gun people see pro-gun as trigger happy, wild west wannabes. I think we all know how pro-gun people see anti-gun people. But I have seen when both sides are around each other and friendly, the stereotypes vanish and people see each other as just people. This can often sway how people view the gun issue as well, in a favorable light. Just like a pro-gun person yelling and screaming and threatening (random example) could reinforce the stereotype and put all gun owners in a bad light.

I think if Obama were a strong and vociferous supporter of 2A, he would have many acolytes here.

 

[uncle money bags]

I'll take it a step farther, maybe we should embrace some of the liberal ideas of less government intervention. Yes, I know most of the Moveon.org stuff is all about getting the State to make us "equal" and all that, but the conservative side is all about the State getting us all wrapped in the flag and Mom and apple pie.

Maybe common ground would be getting the State out of our lives so we can live however we choose?

Less government is not a liberal idea.

pretty sure he is referring to classical liberalism.

 

[okietom]

pretty sure he is referring to classical liberalism.

I know that liberalism and conservatism has changed over the years.

I di agree that it doesn't have to be us vs them.

 

[okietom]

Lott has been pretty thoroughly discredited as a serious researcher. When evaluating studies for merit, I look at how well they controlled for other variables. Even the correlation between "More Guns, Less Crime" doesn't hold up much past a particular point in time.

Also, see Mary Rosh.

When discussing crime rates the only two variables are the number of people and the number of crimes. Isn't that how a crime rate is calculated? The FBI data is all that you need. It is broken done into several catagories if you want to be specific about types of crime. There is really no need for a study when we cabn see the data ourselves.

 

[okietom]

One of the biggest problems with liberals and gun control is the timing of proposals for new laws. It is usually just after a tragedy like Sandy Hook. That is all a play on emotion and not reason. No new law that was proposed could have prevented it.

The "we have to do something" crowd included Obama. Everything that the murdering scumbag did was against the law already. (Lanza) You would think that if they were paying attention they would know that new laws would cause voters to vote out congressmen that voted for them. Obama knew it and only paid lip service to the emotional uninformed voters that were crying for new laws.

Universal background checks won't work without registration. Any one that is paying attention would know that. Why were so many people wanting UBCs?

Obama had to lie about his gun control ideas in oreder to get uninformed voters to elect him. If he had told the truth he would have lost to McCain or Romney. He is paying attention to voting when gun control is involved. He knows that many of his voters don't.

Any one paying attention to Obama's past knew he was lying about his gun control agenda.

Who voted for Obama? Liberals. They don't pay attention.

 

[okietom]

You are entitled to that opinion, but I see this on both sides. Many issues with conservatives are also emotional. Statements like "they don't pay attention" serve to do nothing but belittle people. Both sides have the same full spectrum of everyday people, none of whom are infallible. In the end, the us vs them is a losing proposition as, like it or not, the them is growing faster than the "us". If we at least try to incorporate and show "them" that gun owners aren't crazy, hot-heads and shooting can be safe and fun, we may get a few more people supporting gun rights instead of opposing. I would suggest looking at recent facebook posts by the Liberal Gun Club and Liberal Rifle Association... I suspect you will be pleasantly surprised.

Ok, I looked at the Liberal Gun Club facebook page. I read the qoute of one member that is transgender and likes guns. I read what type of gun owner he/she says the club is made up of.

He/She said that many of the members would like a magazine restriction. He/She doesn't agree.

He/She said that many liberals think that conservative gun owners only worry about keeping rights if it is the 2nd amendment. Which isn't true. And He/She also said that many liberals wiil defend all of the anmendments but the second. Which is also not true.

I am not suprised at all. I know there are liberals that like guns. Many of them are stereotyping conservatives because of the way conservatives act. Many liberals have the idea that I can stand to vote for some one that wants to take my guns if they will support abortion/gay rights/ welfare in it many forms/invasive species rights (my term for illegal immigrants).

They are paying attention to some issues but not gun issues.