Why wouldn't you? Please explain.
Why wouldn't you? Please explain.
Let me start this part of the post by saying I am not a trained expert on plastic bags and I am not attempting to pass myself off as one. I have spent a large amount of time reading and trolling the internet for information on this vacuum bag and storage question. You can blame all this on my wife's wanting to be prepared for when the SHTF, and we are all going to have to fight the "hungry unprepared Zombies". If you are a person trained or more knowledgeable then myself and you spot an error, PLEASE PLEASE feel free to write a correction with some references. I admit it I do not know it all.
I am going to try and address the type of bags and some specifications with out boring you to death.
A Mylar bag is normally thought of as the "silver" plastic bag, a Polyester bag can be clear, but the normal "Mylar" bag as used, has an aluminum foil layer added to it for light blockage. There are several things that will "kill" food stored in a plastic bag, moisture, oxygen and light being three. The foil takes care of the light and adds protection from the other two trouble makers. By the way if you take a Mylar bag into a dark room and insert a strong flash light you probably will see what appear to be a few pin holes. As near as I can tell from different sources this is some type of "measurement" system that is part of the process when the bag material is made. The figures I saw said that the actual rate of real "pin holes" is very very low about .01 of 1% if my memory is correct. Damage done to the bag after leaving the factories gentle hands is unknown.
I know I am being a pain with this explanation, my wife calls me Bones to shut me up when I get too technical for her. But I believe someone once said "Knowledge is Power".
Most people use a vacuum bag system that uses the layered "channeled" plastic food saver type bags. I believe this bag is normally made out of layered Polyethylene type material, you will note that these bags are not Polyester or one of the Mylar materials.
All bags tested in this information were 1 mil thickDIVIDE (not Multiply) by the thickness of your bag to get a materials Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate (MVTR)and Oxygen Transmission Rate (OTR) values. I would like to give credit for this information, but I forgot where I got it. This is a chart for the Oxygen Transmission Rate for various materials.
This group of bags are clear plastic bags OXYGEN TRANSMISSION RATE IN CC IN 24 HR PERIOD
EVOH* (ethylene vinyl alcohol) .005 -.12 cc
I believe the next three are Food Saver Bag Material
HDPE (high density polyethylene) 150 - 200 cc
OPS (oriented polystyrene) 280 - 400 cc
LDPE (low density polyethylene) 450 - 500 cc
The following bags are enhanced by a coating or foil layer being incorporated in the material.
Metallized OPET .01 - .11 cc
PVOH-coated OPP (AOH) .02 cc
Metallized biax Nylon-6 .05 cc
PVdC-coated OPET .30 - .50 cc
High Barrier PVdC-coated OPP .30 - .60 cc
PVdC-coated biax Nylon-6 .35 - .50 cc
Metallized OPP 1.2 - 10 cc
Sealable PVdC-coated OPP 1.5 - 3.5 cc
Many of the bags on the Sorbent web site have their specifications listed. http://www.sorbentsystems.com/index.html Just click on the red material specification number and it will take you right to it. This is part of the information for the PAKVF4C material some of their bags are made of.
Total Thickness (mils) 5.0 mil, Foil layer 0.00035 mils
WATERVAPOR TRANSMISSION RATE (FED 101) 0.0006 gms/100 sq.In./24 hrs.
O2 TRANSMISSION RATE (MOCON) 0.0006 /cc/100 sq.In./24 hrs.
As you can see the material lets in 6 ten thousandths of a gram moisture through 100 sq inches in 24 hours and 6 ten thousandths cc of oxygen through 100 sq inches in 24 hours. Compare this to 5 mil of low density polyethylene which has an OTR of from 90 to 100 cc in a 24 hour period. I have had trouble finding the specs on the food saver type bag, but I have found some specs that indicate that a 3.5 mil Polyethylene type bag has an Moisture Volume Transmission Rate (MVTR) of between 2 and 3 gms of water in a 24 hr period per 100 square inch of material.
Well for those of you who made it all the way through this Thank You for you attention and courtesy.
For those this put too sleep, print it out and keep it next to your bed for reading the next time you are not sleepy but you need to get to sleep quickly.
I am going to try and address the type of bags and some specifications with out boring you to death.
A Mylar bag is normally thought of as the "silver" plastic bag, a Polyester bag can be clear, but the normal "Mylar" bag as used, has an aluminum foil layer added to it for light blockage. There are several things that will "kill" food stored in a plastic bag, moisture, oxygen and light being three. The foil takes care of the light and adds protection from the other two trouble makers. By the way if you take a Mylar bag into a dark room and insert a strong flash light you probably will see what appear to be a few pin holes. As near as I can tell from different sources this is some type of "measurement" system that is part of the process when the bag material is made. The figures I saw said that the actual rate of real "pin holes" is very very low about .01 of 1% if my memory is correct. Damage done to the bag after leaving the factories gentle hands is unknown.
I know I am being a pain with this explanation, my wife calls me Bones to shut me up when I get too technical for her. But I believe someone once said "Knowledge is Power".
Most people use a vacuum bag system that uses the layered "channeled" plastic food saver type bags. I believe this bag is normally made out of layered Polyethylene type material, you will note that these bags are not Polyester or one of the Mylar materials.
All bags tested in this information were 1 mil thickDIVIDE (not Multiply) by the thickness of your bag to get a materials Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate (MVTR)and Oxygen Transmission Rate (OTR) values. I would like to give credit for this information, but I forgot where I got it. This is a chart for the Oxygen Transmission Rate for various materials.
This group of bags are clear plastic bags OXYGEN TRANSMISSION RATE IN CC IN 24 HR PERIOD
EVOH* (ethylene vinyl alcohol) .005 -.12 cc
I believe the next three are Food Saver Bag Material
HDPE (high density polyethylene) 150 - 200 cc
OPS (oriented polystyrene) 280 - 400 cc
LDPE (low density polyethylene) 450 - 500 cc
The following bags are enhanced by a coating or foil layer being incorporated in the material.
Metallized OPET .01 - .11 cc
PVOH-coated OPP (AOH) .02 cc
Metallized biax Nylon-6 .05 cc
PVdC-coated OPET .30 - .50 cc
High Barrier PVdC-coated OPP .30 - .60 cc
PVdC-coated biax Nylon-6 .35 - .50 cc
Metallized OPP 1.2 - 10 cc
Sealable PVdC-coated OPP 1.5 - 3.5 cc
Many of the bags on the Sorbent web site have their specifications listed. http://www.sorbentsystems.com/index.html Just click on the red material specification number and it will take you right to it. This is part of the information for the PAKVF4C material some of their bags are made of.
Total Thickness (mils) 5.0 mil, Foil layer 0.00035 mils
WATERVAPOR TRANSMISSION RATE (FED 101) 0.0006 gms/100 sq.In./24 hrs.
O2 TRANSMISSION RATE (MOCON) 0.0006 /cc/100 sq.In./24 hrs.
As you can see the material lets in 6 ten thousandths of a gram moisture through 100 sq inches in 24 hours and 6 ten thousandths cc of oxygen through 100 sq inches in 24 hours. Compare this to 5 mil of low density polyethylene which has an OTR of from 90 to 100 cc in a 24 hour period. I have had trouble finding the specs on the food saver type bag, but I have found some specs that indicate that a 3.5 mil Polyethylene type bag has an Moisture Volume Transmission Rate (MVTR) of between 2 and 3 gms of water in a 24 hr period per 100 square inch of material.
Well for those of you who made it all the way through this Thank You for you attention and courtesy.
For those this put too sleep, print it out and keep it next to your bed for reading the next time you are not sleepy but you need to get to sleep quickly.
Thanks for posting this info. Looking forward to reading and learning more.
Would you mind sharing a link to the place where you bought your SINBO DZ-280/2SD? I've checked a number of sites and the only "SINBO DZ-280/2SD" exact match I've found was on eBay for a used one. I found several places that sell the SINBO DZ-280, but none labeled SINBO DZ-280/2SD. Thankees. 
Thank you so much for going to the trouble of posting this. I don't vacuum seal very much at all. While I do dehydrate, I tend to store that stuff in jars. And I like to buy FD/DH stuff already packaged. I know it costs more -- that's just me. However, I know there are a lot of folks interested in packaging their own bulk items right now, they just aren't sure where to start.
So ... again, thanks, for sharing!
So ... again, thanks, for sharing!
I am still waiting on the SINBO DZ-280/2SD when I get it I will put the businesses address and other information on. I do not want to put on an address where the service is not up to snuff.
By the way when you think of vacuum sealing don't think only of food. If you vacuum seal some clothing for problem times they should last for years and not get dirty. Same for medical, personal hygiene items and some I have not even thought of yet. Suggestions welcomed.
By the way when you think of vacuum sealing don't think only of food. If you vacuum seal some clothing for problem times they should last for years and not get dirty. Same for medical, personal hygiene items and some I have not even thought of yet. Suggestions welcomed.
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Point of note.
We happen to favor grinding our own coffee beans that are purchased at Sam's and come in a 6 mil mylar bag. The bags retain their aroma even after vinigar baths so don't work well for food stuff however, they are ideal for 12 units of 20 round boxes if your choice personal safety device can handle that mountain grown aroma.
We happen to favor grinding our own coffee beans that are purchased at Sam's and come in a 6 mil mylar bag. The bags retain their aroma even after vinigar baths so don't work well for food stuff however, they are ideal for 12 units of 20 round boxes if your choice personal safety device can handle that mountain grown aroma.
I received my SINBO SNOKEL VACUUM MACHINE WITH THE 4MM SEAL MODEL DZ-280/2SD TODAY. Before I start singing its praises let me put in a plug for the company I bought it from.
Doug Care Equipment, Inc out of Springville, Ca
Phone is 559-539-3076 Fax 59-539-3077
Office hours 8 AM to 3 PM Mon thru Thursday and 8AM to Noon on Friday Pacific Time
Doug (the owner I presume) said that if you wanted to order and make sure you got the 2SD machine to call during business hours and he would take the order over the phone. He is having his website changed to reflect the correct model numbers and wants to make sure you get the correct items. Don't forget to ask about the special package of 500 freezer bags that he is offering on his website, I think it is a good buy.
I have spoken with Doug several times in the process of finding and buying this unit. When I first talked to Doug he had only become aware of its availability from his supplier in the last few days. He told me he would order several units, one of which he would test to see if it was better than the two wire unit previously available from his wholesaler. I put in an order for the unit to be shipped after he had tested one out to see if it met his standards. I called this morning expecting to get a call on Tuesday the 19th after the holiday. Doug called me about 11 AM our time and told me he had checked UPS and I should have the unit today, Monday the 19 of Feb. He also said he liked the 4mm unit and thought it did a better job of sealing than the older model 2 wire unit. UPS dropped it on my door step about 1 PM.
I will like to say that I think that a business man that will test a piece of equipment to see if it meets his standards and his customers needs says a lot about both the man and the company he runs. The price he quoted me over the phone was within 92 cents of my invoice and that was due to shipping the 500 freezer bags and the new unit in one box and him not knowing the exact weight of the newer unit. I am impressed with both the man and the newer unit that he recommends.
When I unpacked the Sinbo unit, the box contained the unit, an instruction manual with lots of illustrations, a replacement latch and a replacement heat strip with new nylon cover strip. The extra replacement parts to cover future wear and tear were a pleasant surprise. A replacement heat strip kit costs $15.00 plus shipping on the internet. The instruction manual you will be glad to know was written by someone well versed in the English language and very knowledgeable about the unit. The instructions are clear, concise and complete.
Being the long winded person I am I only have several additions.
Sit down with a cup of coffee and read the instruction manual at least twice. I say twice in order to get you to read it at least once. Sacrifice a bag or two and try different timer settings and check the results. Believe me if you go for the higher numbers on the timer settings you will melt the plastic at the seal strip. I tried it and it does melt and stick to the machine, thank heavens it peels off easily. After you have played with the unit and made 7 or 8 test seals at different time lengths on the bag you are killing with kindness, go have another cup and let the machine cool down.
The unit has a shut down safety circuit if it gets too hot. This is a very good unit but, it is not a commercial machine and you will not be able to do 50 bags in 30 minutes with it. I am making a couple of guesses here, but the impulse heat strip comes up to a constant temperature and the only control you have is by controlling how long the strip is heated via the timer control. The timer will let you set it up to 9 units of time max, as the unit warms you may need to turn down the timer (in the manual) to make a proper seal.
The one thing I did not find in the manual was a trick I found myself. After the timer has stopped, the unit will start to beep at you to tell you the heat seal is done. When I held down the heat bar for 5 beeps, I seemed to get a much “prettier” seal. The completed seal looked more like the factory seal down the three factory sides of the bag, but not as wide. It made me happy when it looked like the factory seal, I trusted it more. Your unit may be a 4 beep machine.
Put a tray of some type in front of the unit to elevate the bag so the plastic is not draped over the snorkel nozzle, if the nozzle gets blocked by the plastic bag, it cannot suck out the excess air. The manual says to put the contents of the bag close to the nozzle to prevent the bag from getting sucked into the nozzle and blocking it, don't get the contents to close or it will be sucked up tight. I found tipping up the bag at about 20 Degrees seems to help the nozzle stay clearer, but the bag tries to pull the plastic back away from the heat strip when you try and lay it down to seal the bag. Let me think about a fix for the problem, if you come up with a solution let us know here on the forum.
You are going to mess up some of your bags before you get the hang of using this unit, the unit is not hard to use in fact it is very easy, but perfection takes a while and finesse comes with practice. In a few hours I have sealed about 50 bags of various sizes with various frozen ribs, steaks, chops, mixed fruit, nuts and of course bagels, I had a lot of stuff in ZipLocks. Tomorrow I will check the freezer and I bet one or two bags are “loose” but I bet it won't be the last ones I bagged. I also packed three bags of dry rice, one freezer bag, one 3.5 mill Mylar and one 7.5 mm Mylar and will wait for a few days to see if the vacuum lasted . Rice can cut a bag and lose vacuum.
Later this week I am going back to the packing of my long term storage items. I have decided to rearrange my dry goods so there is more variety in a can, with spices to flavor my staples. This way if necessary I can hand over a can to a family if they need help and they have more variety than 20 lbs of pinto beans without salt.
I hope this information is helpful. If you call Doug to order a Sinbo unit tell him Vernon from Oklahoma City recommended him and his company.
By the way I don't use this large print to be a showoff, I use it so I can read it.
19 Feb --Doug Care Equipment has updated their web page to include the /2SD model and the /2SE model. The /2SE model will handle the problems of liquid being sucked into the unit with liquid catcher. According to the manual inclosed with the unit I received, the /2SE has a more powerful pump than either the /A model or the /2SB model. The vacuum capacities are 0.035 Mpa, 0.045 Mpa and 0.06 Mpa respectively. You can now order without having to worry about any mix ups as to which unit you want.
http://www.dougcare.com/foodstorage/homeequip.htm#sinbo here is the web address to save you having to look it up.
Also I found 5 bags "loose" after sitting for 24 hr in the freezer. None of the seals were "pretty", I clipped off the old seal, cleaned any moisture from the inside of the bag and repackaged them. If you hold the bag up to the light at an angle you can check the seal better on a clear bag.
Doug Care Equipment, Inc out of Springville, Ca
Phone is 559-539-3076 Fax 59-539-3077
Office hours 8 AM to 3 PM Mon thru Thursday and 8AM to Noon on Friday Pacific Time
Doug (the owner I presume) said that if you wanted to order and make sure you got the 2SD machine to call during business hours and he would take the order over the phone. He is having his website changed to reflect the correct model numbers and wants to make sure you get the correct items. Don't forget to ask about the special package of 500 freezer bags that he is offering on his website, I think it is a good buy.
I have spoken with Doug several times in the process of finding and buying this unit. When I first talked to Doug he had only become aware of its availability from his supplier in the last few days. He told me he would order several units, one of which he would test to see if it was better than the two wire unit previously available from his wholesaler. I put in an order for the unit to be shipped after he had tested one out to see if it met his standards. I called this morning expecting to get a call on Tuesday the 19th after the holiday. Doug called me about 11 AM our time and told me he had checked UPS and I should have the unit today, Monday the 19 of Feb. He also said he liked the 4mm unit and thought it did a better job of sealing than the older model 2 wire unit. UPS dropped it on my door step about 1 PM.
I will like to say that I think that a business man that will test a piece of equipment to see if it meets his standards and his customers needs says a lot about both the man and the company he runs. The price he quoted me over the phone was within 92 cents of my invoice and that was due to shipping the 500 freezer bags and the new unit in one box and him not knowing the exact weight of the newer unit. I am impressed with both the man and the newer unit that he recommends.
When I unpacked the Sinbo unit, the box contained the unit, an instruction manual with lots of illustrations, a replacement latch and a replacement heat strip with new nylon cover strip. The extra replacement parts to cover future wear and tear were a pleasant surprise. A replacement heat strip kit costs $15.00 plus shipping on the internet. The instruction manual you will be glad to know was written by someone well versed in the English language and very knowledgeable about the unit. The instructions are clear, concise and complete.
Being the long winded person I am I only have several additions.
Sit down with a cup of coffee and read the instruction manual at least twice. I say twice in order to get you to read it at least once. Sacrifice a bag or two and try different timer settings and check the results. Believe me if you go for the higher numbers on the timer settings you will melt the plastic at the seal strip. I tried it and it does melt and stick to the machine, thank heavens it peels off easily. After you have played with the unit and made 7 or 8 test seals at different time lengths on the bag you are killing with kindness, go have another cup and let the machine cool down.
The unit has a shut down safety circuit if it gets too hot. This is a very good unit but, it is not a commercial machine and you will not be able to do 50 bags in 30 minutes with it. I am making a couple of guesses here, but the impulse heat strip comes up to a constant temperature and the only control you have is by controlling how long the strip is heated via the timer control. The timer will let you set it up to 9 units of time max, as the unit warms you may need to turn down the timer (in the manual) to make a proper seal.
The one thing I did not find in the manual was a trick I found myself. After the timer has stopped, the unit will start to beep at you to tell you the heat seal is done. When I held down the heat bar for 5 beeps, I seemed to get a much “prettier” seal. The completed seal looked more like the factory seal down the three factory sides of the bag, but not as wide. It made me happy when it looked like the factory seal, I trusted it more. Your unit may be a 4 beep machine.
Put a tray of some type in front of the unit to elevate the bag so the plastic is not draped over the snorkel nozzle, if the nozzle gets blocked by the plastic bag, it cannot suck out the excess air. The manual says to put the contents of the bag close to the nozzle to prevent the bag from getting sucked into the nozzle and blocking it, don't get the contents to close or it will be sucked up tight. I found tipping up the bag at about 20 Degrees seems to help the nozzle stay clearer, but the bag tries to pull the plastic back away from the heat strip when you try and lay it down to seal the bag. Let me think about a fix for the problem, if you come up with a solution let us know here on the forum.
You are going to mess up some of your bags before you get the hang of using this unit, the unit is not hard to use in fact it is very easy, but perfection takes a while and finesse comes with practice. In a few hours I have sealed about 50 bags of various sizes with various frozen ribs, steaks, chops, mixed fruit, nuts and of course bagels, I had a lot of stuff in ZipLocks. Tomorrow I will check the freezer and I bet one or two bags are “loose” but I bet it won't be the last ones I bagged. I also packed three bags of dry rice, one freezer bag, one 3.5 mill Mylar and one 7.5 mm Mylar and will wait for a few days to see if the vacuum lasted . Rice can cut a bag and lose vacuum.
Later this week I am going back to the packing of my long term storage items. I have decided to rearrange my dry goods so there is more variety in a can, with spices to flavor my staples. This way if necessary I can hand over a can to a family if they need help and they have more variety than 20 lbs of pinto beans without salt.
I hope this information is helpful. If you call Doug to order a Sinbo unit tell him Vernon from Oklahoma City recommended him and his company.
By the way I don't use this large print to be a showoff, I use it so I can read it.
19 Feb --Doug Care Equipment has updated their web page to include the /2SD model and the /2SE model. The /2SE model will handle the problems of liquid being sucked into the unit with liquid catcher. According to the manual inclosed with the unit I received, the /2SE has a more powerful pump than either the /A model or the /2SB model. The vacuum capacities are 0.035 Mpa, 0.045 Mpa and 0.06 Mpa respectively. You can now order without having to worry about any mix ups as to which unit you want.
http://www.dougcare.com/foodstorage/homeequip.htm#sinbo here is the web address to save you having to look it up.
Also I found 5 bags "loose" after sitting for 24 hr in the freezer. None of the seals were "pretty", I clipped off the old seal, cleaned any moisture from the inside of the bag and repackaged them. If you hold the bag up to the light at an angle you can check the seal better on a clear bag.
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Brand? Thanks in advance.
I use the Food Saver Brand. Interesting to note that in the past, we put up the fish we caught in a zip lock bag with water to keep it from being freezer burnt. I've since found that putting the fillets on a cookie sheet, freezing them, and finally doing the vacume pack will make the fillets much more firm after cooking than freezing in water. Don't know why, but its a marked result., and it takes up less room in the freezer.
Fresh meat needs to be partially frozen before packing. If not some moisture will come out of the meat and ruin the seal.
I have bags of packed ammo. It will remain shiney after a couple of years. I keep one bag from years ago as a test sample.
The vacume process removes almost all of moisture in the air. Clothes, etc that are vacume packed take up 1/2 the room in a back pack, using them only when necessary. The list goes on.
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