Mother arrested after baby found dead in Bartlesville

[Bandintheusa]

She reportedly denied that she used methamphetamine “anymore.”

A drug screen administered by police, however, reportedly returned positive for “methamphetamine, amphetamines, benzodiazepine, and opiates.”

I dont know if any of you guys have had experiences with cranksters before. Whenever they say "I dont do meth anymore". That is indicative that they are on it right then. I have seen good people destroy themselves with that stuff. Its really really a bad drug. I wouldnt classify any other drug with that one. Heroin doesnt even make people that weird.

 

[tRidiot]

Maybe I should go back and re-read to find out exactly what I said....

Hmmm.... nope, I don't see any of those claims in my post. Not sure what you're reading there.


And yes, of COURSE I was using hyperbole. DUH.

But I stand behind my personal experience (which spans a good portion of the western hemisphere in healthcare) that there are a shiteload of addicts and would-be addicts out there who would be at significantly more risk were many of the currently-illegal drugs legalized.

I don't really care what you argue about other countries, the US is different in nearly every way than any of them. Even our closest northern neighbor has a citizenry which is demonstrably and fundamentally different than the American public in mindset. Call it what you want, but we're Americans, for good and for ill.

As I've said before... my personal hands-on experience has shown me what a very large portion of the American public will do with no responsibility, free money and free healthcare. I don't need studies from Denmark or The Netherlands to tell me what Americans will do. I see it. Again... if you can prove to me that my personal experience on the front lines of America's addiction problem was all a figment of my imagination and that all these people are really just poor victims of the police state that is America, well, then you've likely slipped one of those mind-altering substances into my Diet Mt. Dew, I think.

 

[tRidiot]

These.





And this.



If your being strict on drugs had as dramatic an effect on usage as you are implying, then when we became stricter things should have dramatically changed for the better. The incarceration rate should not have skyrocketed. Usage rates would have dropped dramatically as penalties grew stiffer.

Sorry, I never said incarceration rates would drop, drug use would drop or drugs would be less available. Those are your extrapolations which are not easily determined. Which is what you attributed to me. You cannot say "this equates that" in such a complicated scenario. It's not a simple formula or a black and white.


Go back and quote that, if you will, please.


Or rather...

Run an' tell dat, Run an' tell dat, Run an' tell dat,
Homeboy
Homeboy
Home-home-homeboy

 

[RidgeHunter]

if you can prove to me that my personal experience on the front lines of America's addiction problem was all a figment of my imagination and that all these people are really just poor victims of the police state that is America, well, then you've likely slipped one of those mind-altering substances into my Diet Mt. Dew, I think.

I can't, but I can say that your anecdotal experiences don't come close to proving anything you are saying. And the numbers (from America in the last 40 years) really don't jive with your theory either.

Sorry, I never said incarceration rates would drop, drug use would drop or drugs would be less available.

You flat out said that fear of punishment is a major deterrent from dug use, and that "many people" would jump headlong into your proverbial sewer if drugs were legalized. If "fear of punishment" was such a major deterrent, the incarnation rate would not have more than quadrupled in the same time period that drug possession penalties were increased dramatically. Also, drug usage rates would have declined due to people fearing the punishment.

40 years, and it hasn't happened.

Maybe you meant "a few" and "an insignificant number" instead of "a lot" and "many"? If so, I agree 100%.

And on your Mt. Dew, we need to make it illegal to protect the Appalachians. It can't be a socio-economic problem, it's just that we need to ban it is all.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6863173&page=1

 

[tRidiot]

I can't, but I can say that your anecdotal experiences don't come close to proving anything you are saying. And the numbers (from America in the last 40 years) really don't jive with your theory either.

And on your Mt. Dew, we need to make it illegal to protect the Appalachians. It can't be a socio-economic problem, it's just that we need to ban it is all.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6863173&page=1

I ain't skeered o' no Mt. Dew. As I said, I drink Diet. But either way, my son drinks ZERO soda, none, not one. And even though I consume it in amounts fit to kill an elephant, all my teeth seem to be in decent shape. A couple of small cavities a few years ago, but it's amazing what a toothbrush and abstinence from methamphetamine will do for a mouth.

The numbers you are so fond of point to a growing dependence in this country on drugs, both legal and illegal. I don't know your true stance, since you only want to argue (apparently) that I am wrong, but I've said my piece and am moving on.

I am sad to think that real people in this world think legalizing drugs will make the problem go away. Of course, if we decriminalized murder and rape, then we'd sure have less people with those convictions in prison. But do you think the rates would stay the same? If it were 100% legal to go out and shank your wife's boyfriend, or to pop your boss because he was a dumbass? Maybe I'm crazy, but I really truly believe the only thing that keeps a lot of people in check is the fear of punishment or retribution. It's true I've seen a lot of the underbelly of society, and I am by no means saying the majority of people would succumb to such desires, but I do think it is a large enough portion of the population that it would or could to bring us into an almost total collapse.

Oh well... we're headed that way anyways, so debating it is merely academic to me at this point.

Of course, these are my opinions... I am free to agree and disagree with others at will and they with me. Doesn't change my life at all, except to shake my head more and go about my business.

 

[tRidiot]

You flat out said that fear of punishment is a major deterrent from dug use, and that "many people" would jump headlong into your proverbial sewer if drugs were legalized. If "fear of punishment" was such a major deterrent, the incarnation rate would not have more than quadrupled in the same time period that drug possession penalties were increased dramatically. Also, drug usage rates would have declined due to people fearing the punishment.

40 years, and it hasn't happened.

Maybe you meant "a few" and "an insignificant number" instead of "a lot" and "many"? If so, I agree 100%.

And on your Mt. Dew, we need to make it illegal to protect the Appalachians. It can't be a socio-economic problem, it's just that we need to ban it is all.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6863173&page=1

I did say that... and I said A LOT. I wasn't speaking about every drug user or abuser or every person. You obviously have taken it to a whole other level and seem to be getting upset about my use of "a lot".

Oh well... your problem, not mine. Makes me wonder about you and your environment and experience, but not really enough to continue this.

Sorry.

 

[RidgeHunter]

IA couple of small cavities a few years ago, but it's amazing what a toothbrush and abstinence from methamphetamine will do for a mouth.

FYI, the Mountain Dew mouth is found in young children that don't do meth. I threw that in as a laugh, but it does actually coincides with what I'm saying.

It's not the substance, it's the issues of why the people are using it. Why the hell are these people giving babies Mountain Dew and not teaching them proper dental hygeine? The problem is not the Mountain Dew. That's a symptom.

I don't know your true stance

Shoulda asked. I'm against drug prohibition mainly because I believe it to be an ineffectual way at combating our drug problem in America.

I am sad to think that real people in this world think legalizing drugs will make the problem go away.

I don't think it will make it go away. Far from it. I just think that the prohibition is not keeping the numbers from being much higher, as you think.

I think the effect prohibition has is very minor on the amount of people using and/or addicted to drugs.

Of course, if we decriminalized murder and rape, then we'd sure have less people with those convictions in prison. But do you think the rates would stay the same? If it were 100% legal to go out and shank your wife's boyfriend, or to pop your boss because he was a dumbass? Maybe I'm crazy, but I really truly believe the only thing that keeps a lot of people in check is the fear of punishment or retribution. It's true I've seen a lot of the underbelly of society, and I am by no means saying the majority of people would succumb to such desires, but I do think it is a large enough portion of the population that it would or could to bring us into an almost total collapse.

Straying from the murder and rape hyperbole, do you think that gun bans have a significant effect at reducing gun crime?

I did say that... and I said A LOT. I wasn't speaking about every drug user or abuser or every person. You obviously have taken it to a whole other level and seem to be getting upset about my use of "a lot".

Oh well... your problem, not mine. Makes me wonder about you and your environment and experience, but not really enough to continue this.

Sorry.

C'mon now, I'm not taking issue or getting upset. I'm not picking at your use of "a lot". I'm picking at your idea that drug prohibition is keeping a large segment of the population from diving headlong into self-destruction, which you said in pretty much those exact terms.
I just think that number would not be anywhere close to large.

Environment and experience? Please. You seem to think I'm picking on you, so you're responding in kind. All I picked on was one thing you said, which I just outlined directly above this. I disagree with that theory, that is all. I tried to give my reason for that.

But if it makes you feel better, I can give you Steve Martin-esque story about my environment and experience. "I was born a poor black child..."

 

[stroker-c10]

Alright guys lets stick to the subject at hand. Despite the fact that this woman was on drugs and is quite possibly one of the biggest pieces of crap on the planet, lets not turn it into a discussion over drug laws.

As for the original topic, I still cannot fathom how some piece of **** could do this to an innocent child, let alone have the audacity to bring a child into the world in her sort of condition.

I know this country has strict regulations on cruel and unusual punishment but the golden rule says "do unto others as you would have others do unto you". I say bring forth the industrial size washer.

 

[redneck1861]

I agree that the person is the problem. But I also believe there are a LOT of people 'on the edge' so to speak, who stay with the legal prescription dope for the most part now and try to stay on the right side of the law... Not by conscience but fear of punishment.

Before my ND when my hand was shot, I was in the early stages of the Police academy, and I did ride alongs EVERY night, and 95 % of the time that we arrested people for posession, that is not Marijuana, it is perscription narcotics. Mostly Lortab, perocet, and oxyconitent. All of them are legal, i they are perscribed to you and not snorting them. So what Trdoc is saying here is completely true, and I don't need to read statistics, I was there on the front line, yes more people get hit with posession of marijuana, but the majority of the others get hit for posession of perscription narcotics

 

[RidgeHunter]

Before my ND when my hand was shot, I was in the early stages of the Police academy, and I did ride alongs EVERY night, and 95 % of the time that we arrested people for posession, that is not Marijuana, it is perscription narcotics. Mostly Lortab, perocet, and oxyconitent. All of them are legal, i they are perscribed to you and not snorting them. So what Trdoc is saying here is completely true, and I don't need to read statistics, I was there on the front line, yes more people get hit with posession of marijuana, but the majority of the others get hit for posession of perscription narcotics

If they are being arrested, then what they are doing is against the law.

The vast majority of people abusing pain pills break multiple laws daily. There is nothing "legal" about abusing prescription drugs. They are illegal drug users. They can be punished for what they are doing just as easily as a cocaine or meth user, as you pointed out.

They should have the same "fear of punishment".

and I don't need to read statistics

Cool. They get in the way sometimes.