Oklahoma HB1059 - SDA Amendment

[mons meg]

the only thing I can think of on the part where they strike parks and fairgrounds, etc. form the exceptions list is if the law is to be read with a "presumption of liberty" and the parks/fairgrounds was just distracting??

Emailed my legislator for his opinion, will let you know if/what he comes up with.

 

[mons meg]

Also, we've always been able to leave guns in a locked car on university/college property...correct? The statute clearly says "attended or unattended" when referencing vehicles.

 

[CoachR64]

Yes, universities are ok. Currently, primary and secondary schools are restricted for possession on property, including in a vehicle.

 

[skyydiver]

It appears to me to be some well intended changes. With the exception of the weird concealment stuff and especially the striking of parks and fairgrounds as expressly always carry places, I like the changes. I worry about the way some of these guys' minds must work after reading and writing this way for years. No offense, JB.

 

[NikatKimber]

It appears to me that it is written in such a way that a strict interpration makes OC illegal.



That's the sneaky part. His intent may just be to clarify that accidental exposure when carrying concealed is no longer a crime but that's not the way it reads. The statement is ambiguous enough that OC is iffy IMO.

Then again IANAL. We need some of our legal eagles like JB or Henschman to weigh in on this.

I see what you're saying now. I'll look at a way of re-writing it and suggesting to the author. It also appears to use the word "the" in front of handgun, implicitly limiting the number you can carry to one.

It should have some language to the effect of:

A. It shall be unlawful for:
3. For any person carrying a handgun with a valid handgun
license issued pursuant to the provision of the Oklahoma Self-
Defense Act to intentionally fail to CARRY conceal the handgun within the
meaning of the definition provided for in Section 1290.2 of this
title; provided, however, that accidental exposure of the handgun
shall not constitute an offense under the provisions of this
section.

Add the BOLD ITALIC and remove the small red parts.

DEFINITIONS
A. As used in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act:
1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol
carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either
upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to
the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in
which the person is riding as a passenger, the presence of which is
not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable
person;
2. “Unconcealed handgun” means a loaded or unloaded pistol
carried upon the person in a belt or shoulder holster that is wholly
or partially visible, or carried upon the person in a scabbard or
case designed for carrying firearms that is wholly or partially
visible; and

 

[NikatKimber]

Here is the letter I sent to Mr. Mccullough:

ETA: WARNING! Formatting didn't copy/paste right, so please don't just copy paste this back into your email!! You will look like a bumbling idiot who didn't proof read!

Hello Mr Mccullough,

I have had the chance to read through this proposed legislation. I have a couple concerns with it. Please review my comments.

In the current bill it reads:
Section 1272. A. 3.
3. For any person carrying a handgun with a valid handgun
license issued pursuant to the provision of the Oklahoma Self-
Defense Act to intentionally fail to conceal the handgun within the
meaning of the definition provided for in Section 1290.2 of this
title; provided, however, that accidental exposure of the handgun
shall not constitute an offense under the provisions of this
section

This, most likely unintentionally, appears to conflict with the rest of the bill in that it refers to concealed as the only valid method of carry. Secondly, it uses the word “the” prior to handgun. There is currently no restriction within the SDA on how many firearms a person may carry legally. This usage of the word “the” would implicitly add that restriction. My suggestion for wording is as follows:

Add the BOLD ITALIC and remove the small red parts.

3. For any person carrying a handgun with a valid handgun
license issued pursuant to the provision of the Oklahoma Self-
Defense Act to intentionally fail to CARRY conceal the handgun within the
meaning of the definition provided for in Section 1290.2 of this
title; provided, however, that accidental exposure of the handgun
shall not constitute an offense under the provisions of this
section.

For reference, Section 1290.2 as proposed in this bill, which I nearly agree with.

A. As used in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act:
1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol
carried hidden from the detection and view of another person either
upon or about the person, in a purse or other container belonging to
the person, or in a vehicle which is operated by the person or in
which the person is riding as a passenger, the presence of which is
not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable
person;
2. “Unconcealed handgun” means a loaded or unloaded pistol
carried upon the person in a belt or shoulder holster that is wholly
or partially visible, or carried upon the person in a scabbard or
case designed for carrying firearms that is wholly or partially
visible;

My concern with this language would be the ambiguity of whether or not said concealed pistol is required to be immediately on or about that person’s body.

The following section that is removed in this amendment I would not like to see removed.

Section 1277.
UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES
B. For purposes of paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 4 of subsection
A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and
specifically excludes the following property:
4. Any property designated by a city, town, county, or state,
governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds;
provided, nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize
any entry by a person in possession of a concealed or unconcealed
handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is
specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this
section.

I believe I correctly understand this language to mean to restrict carry at any such “park, recreational area, or fairgrounds;” the governing body would be required to provide armed security and metal detectors. However, at such large, most likely outdoor, events, both requirements would still be nearly meaningless. Especially metal detectors. It is too easy to get into a fair or park without going through a prescribed entrance. Especially if ones’ intentions were not legal.

One last comment.

In Section 1290.11
OTHER PRECLUSIONS
A.
10. An arrest for an alleged commission of, a misdemeanor
offense or a misdemeanor charge pending for, or the in this state or
another state. The preclusive period shall be until the final
determination of the matter;

This seems nonsensical to me. Please inform me if I am understanding this wrong, but it sound to me that if one has an arrest for, or charge pending for, a misdemeanor, one is precluded from CHL. That alone I don’t have too much problem with; HOWEVER, it sounds as if on final determination – regardless of what determination – one is no longer precluded. That doesn’t make sense to me. If one is arrested or charged with a misdemeanor that would not preclude one if convicted of, then that arrest or charge should not preclude one either.

The rest of the changes I appreciate, and agree with. Thank you for your time!

Sincerely,
__NikatKimber__

 

[rawhide]

You can ask him on Saturday at the Ok Educatorsdue Security and Self Defense Assoc. Class registration and political action day at US Shooting Academy. He's the on e proposing carry for teachers.

 

[NikatKimber]

I will be judging a high school robotics competition that day, so I am unable to attend. I am also not an educator.

 

[rawhide]

You can ask him on Saturday at the Ok Educatorsdue Security and Self Defense Assoc. Class registration and political action day at US Shooting Academy. He's the on e proposing carry for teachers.

Well, it appears Rep McCullough has backed out. Not sure what to think of it.

 

[NikatKimber]

Mark's response:

Brent,
Yes. All the "accidental exposure" language is left over from the original version, so it now appears to be obsolete. It was intended as a fix for our harsh "patterning" language. The bill is also meant to expand carry rights to non-secured government buildings and fix the school parking lot felony rule. I'll work on the language in a committee substitute if we need to get the language tighter. This bill didn't get a hearing last year b/c Leadership only wanted one big gun bill, and that was open carry. Spread the word. Thanks.
Mark McCullough