Old truck new power --- How much HP do ya really need

[Shoot Summ]

Ok... I know that Tim Allen taught us all that "More Power" is better, but how much horsepower do you really need? mid fifties ford truck. Thing is pretty light weight (like 3200#). do you really need 400+HP. For not too much money It looks like you can get a low milage pull 2.3L ecoboost with tranny and all the parts need to make it run. 310HP. Whats wrong with that? that's almost 3 times what was it came with.

There is a guy on Garagejournal that has done several eco transplants into F100's. He's found a number of totaled F150's and has done everything from just the drive train, to setting the cab and bed on a late model chassis. The biggest challenge has been the electrics although I think that industry has advanced since he originally started. His current project is the HO 3.5(Raptor) Eco in an F100.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147380

 

[swampratt]

The 5.7 Hemi camshafts are soft very soft.
If you get one make sure you use excellent oil like a European oil and change it often or you will be like thousands of others stuck with a bad cam.
You can get one from the dealer.
Look and try and find an aftermarket camshaft grind for the 5.7 Hemi.
There is a reason you do not see pages of them like you do the Ford and Chevy engines.

High failure rate.
I work at a Camshaft shop sometimes and Some come in with 160,000 miles on them and destroyed and others do not make it past 60,000.
A bunch of these street corner shops that sell used vehicles get the 5.7 Hemi vehicle at an auction with a bad cam.
They want just one lobe welded up and no grinding on the cam.. when there are 6 other lobes that are on their way out.
Too bad the warranty from used vehicles is Nill these will not live.
I would not have one.
6.0LS is the only one I have seen that has enough balls to do some truck work.. the 5.3 and down are anemic reminds me of my 305" sbc I worked over in a 78 Nova.
Not good in my book.

I have been thrashing on my engine that is in the 57 since 1990's and it has stood the test of time.
With maintenance comes reliability.. unless there is a part designed to fail.

 

[Shadowrider]

@swampratt it's the oils we have today. The EPA has mandated that the ZDDP (EP additive) all but be taken out of our oils because it causes catalytic converter failure over time and likely won't make the .gov mandated 5 or 10 year emission system warranty. There is barely any of it in there in motor oils today. That additive is what made flat tappets last to begin with and one reason the automakers were basically forced to go to roller cams across the board.

If you are running old school hydraulic or solid lifters you need an API SG or maybe SF (I forget) rated oil or earlier. And be sure to find out the PPM on the ZDDP too as that's just where the ZDDP level was mandated to be cut back to basically nothing, so there might still not be a lot in there. But it's one of the cheapest and most effective EP additives, so if you can find oil to that old of a spec there's a good chance it'll be in there. If I ever get an old classic I'll be running Amsoil Z Rod oil in it. It's made specifically for that application.

If you think that is BS, just wait....The automakers are having to spec 0W16 weight oils due to fuel economy CAFE mandates and even lighter oils than that are coming!

 

[swampratt]

Yep I know all about that reduction of anti wear additives all too well.
It happened in 2007.
Since the time I had been driving I was using Havoline 10-30 or 10-40 I am 51 now and that was not too long ago But I did see the Zinc levels in the oil I was using then it was 1450 PPM and Phosphorus was up there also.
I began racing about 19 years old and was looking for an even slicker better oil and started using Mobil 1 synthetic.. It gave me better MPG in everything.
I then began testing different oils for MPG differences in about 1997 and found a huge difference in the MPG then did another test in 2001 with my corolla and with conventional it would get 27 MPG and some synthetic oils would give me 33.5 MPG and some synthetics only mustered 29 MPG.

Fast forward to 2007 or 2008 It had been about 7 years since I had installed cam into anything.
Buddy wanted one and I usually just used shelf oil to break in a cam as it was going to be removed in 30 minutes and another batch of shelf oil and fresh filter and another 30-40 minutes and i change that out.

Well it did not make it through the second oil change had a lifter eat the cam and the lifter went south.
Others were on their way out.
This was a fresh rebuild not just a cam.
It all came apart flushed all the debris out of everything.. oil galley plugs came out also and brushed and high pressure sprayed it all out.
Another cam and lifters went in.

Another Fail this one did not make it 15 minutes during break in and started ticking.

WTF!!! I have done this same procedure dozens of times and never lost a cam or lifters..
It all came apart fresh bearings again all flushed out and now I am doing research on cam and lifter failures.
I used GM EOS and forget what oil on the 3rd attempt and no failures.
Thanks EPA... FOR NOTHING.
I now use Driven which was Joe Gibbs oil for Break-in.

And use Driven oils or Valvoline VR1 in my stuff.

The 1995 corolla using mobil 1 synthetic MPG went from 33.5 to 29-30 with the new blend low ZDDP.
I used it in my riding mower also and changed it one day and fired it up and heard a horrible squeal.

It was a bearing squeal ..Are you kidding me you can't make oil even remotely good enough for a measly old riding mower.
Talk about Zero protection from A product you would think was good.
It got Rotella T6.

Buddy lost a cam in his 66 vette Mobil 1 synthetic.
He has a Honda that I swear was knocking from a rod or piston slap.. less than 100,000 miles.
Using Mobil synthetic..I had him send a sample to blackstone labs and it came back normal for his mileage.
I told him change the oil to T6 he did and the knocking immediately quit and MPG came up 4 MPG.
My corolla got T6 and I was rewarded with 35 MPG it bested the good Mobil oil.

He changed the oil in his 5.3 LS to T6 and MPG came up 1.5.
T6 has changed since then.

Gotta stay on top of this oil stuff for sure,, Every year it changes.

I say use European Mobil 1 because it does still have some good stuff in it..a bit lower than I like to see but better than our made for USA crud.

Driven has some really good LS oil with plenty of the good antiwear additives.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

Yep I know all about that reduction of anti wear additives all too well.
It happened in 2007.
Since the time I had been driving I was using Havoline 10-30 or 10-40 I am 51 now and that was not too long ago But I did see the Zinc levels in the oil I was using then it was 1450 PPM and Phosphorus was up there also.
I began racing about 19 years old and was looking for an even slicker better oil and started using Mobil 1 synthetic.. It gave me better MPG in everything.
I then began testing different oils for MPG differences in about 1997 and found a huge difference in the MPG then did another test in 2001 with my corolla and with conventional it would get 27 MPG and some synthetic oils would give me 33.5 MPG and some synthetics only mustered 29 MPG.

Fast forward to 2007 or 2008 It had been about 7 years since I had installed cam into anything.
Buddy wanted one and I usually just used shelf oil to break in a cam as it was going to be removed in 30 minutes and another batch of shelf oil and fresh filter and another 30-40 minutes and i change that out.

Well it did not make it through the second oil change had a lifter eat the cam and the lifter went south.
Others were on their way out.
This was a fresh rebuild not just a cam.
It all came apart flushed all the debris out of everything.. oil galley plugs came out also and brushed and high pressure sprayed it all out.
Another cam and lifters went in.

Another Fail this one did not make it 15 minutes during break in and started ticking.

WTF!!! I have done this same procedure dozens of times and never lost a cam or lifters..
It all came apart fresh bearings again all flushed out and now I am doing research on cam and lifter failures.
I used GM EOS and forget what oil on the 3rd attempt and no failures.
Thanks EPA... FOR NOTHING.
I now use Driven which was Joe Gibbs oil for Break-in.

And use Driven oils or Valvoline VR1 in my stuff.

The 1995 corolla using mobil 1 synthetic MPG went from 33.5 to 29-30 with the new blend low ZDDP.
I used it in my riding mower also and changed it one day and fired it up and heard a horrible squeal.

It was a bearing squeal ..Are you kidding me you can't make oil even remotely good enough for a measly old riding mower.
Talk about Zero protection from A product you would think was good.
It got Rotella T6.

Buddy lost a cam in his 66 vette Mobil 1 synthetic.
He has a Honda that I swear was knocking from a rod or piston slap.. less than 100,000 miles.
Using Mobil synthetic..I had him send a sample to blackstone labs and it came back normal for his mileage.
I told him change the oil to T6 he did and the knocking immediately quit and MPG came up 4 MPG.
My corolla got T6 and I was rewarded with 35 MPG it bested the good Mobil oil.

He changed the oil in his 5.3 LS to T6 and MPG came up 1.5.
T6 has changed since then.

Gotta stay on top of this oil stuff for sure,, Every year it changes.

I say use European Mobil 1 because it does still have some good stuff in it..a bit lower than I like to see but better than our made for USA crud.

Driven has some really good LS oil with plenty of the good antiwear additives.

Tell me more about the Driven oil and where to get it.

 

[swampratt]

Tell me more about the Driven oil and where to get it.

You can order it online or Oreilly can get it for you sometimes.
I go to EPW to get mine here in OKC You can't buy from EPW unless you have an account (Suck) and a machine shop..I think they require you to have 2 big machining to be considered.
I get heads and pistons and many other parts there.. much cheaper than 99% of other places.

I do not know if the Oil is any cheaper though.
Driven used to be Joe Gibbs racing oil. Couple years ago they changed the name.
https://www.drivenracingoil.com/

I have used the BR oil (Break in oil) exclusively during break in.
I also use Crower cam saver lifters on all my hydraulic flat tappet cams and Howards Direct Lube lifters on my Solid flat tappet cams.
I will not use any thing else that combo has not failed me.
I do make sure when installing lifters that they are not tight in the hole and not too loose either.
They need to spin or the cam will go flat.

The fresh built engine with new cam and lifters needs to fire up immediately and get some splash lube onto the cam and lifters for proper break in.
You know that.

 

[Glocktogo]

Yep I know all about that reduction of anti wear additives all too well.
It happened in 2007.
Since the time I had been driving I was using Havoline 10-30 or 10-40 I am 51 now and that was not too long ago But I did see the Zinc levels in the oil I was using then it was 1450 PPM and Phosphorus was up there also.
I began racing about 19 years old and was looking for an even slicker better oil and started using Mobil 1 synthetic.. It gave me better MPG in everything.
I then began testing different oils for MPG differences in about 1997 and found a huge difference in the MPG then did another test in 2001 with my corolla and with conventional it would get 27 MPG and some synthetic oils would give me 33.5 MPG and some synthetics only mustered 29 MPG.

Fast forward to 2007 or 2008 It had been about 7 years since I had installed cam into anything.
Buddy wanted one and I usually just used shelf oil to break in a cam as it was going to be removed in 30 minutes and another batch of shelf oil and fresh filter and another 30-40 minutes and i change that out.

Well it did not make it through the second oil change had a lifter eat the cam and the lifter went south.
Others were on their way out.
This was a fresh rebuild not just a cam.
It all came apart flushed all the debris out of everything.. oil galley plugs came out also and brushed and high pressure sprayed it all out.
Another cam and lifters went in.

Another Fail this one did not make it 15 minutes during break in and started ticking.

WTF!!! I have done this same procedure dozens of times and never lost a cam or lifters..
It all came apart fresh bearings again all flushed out and now I am doing research on cam and lifter failures.
I used GM EOS and forget what oil on the 3rd attempt and no failures.
Thanks EPA... FOR NOTHING.
I now use Driven which was Joe Gibbs oil for Break-in.

And use Driven oils or Valvoline VR1 in my stuff.

The 1995 corolla using mobil 1 synthetic MPG went from 33.5 to 29-30 with the new blend low ZDDP.
I used it in my riding mower also and changed it one day and fired it up and heard a horrible squeal.

It was a bearing squeal ..Are you kidding me you can't make oil even remotely good enough for a measly old riding mower.
Talk about Zero protection from A product you would think was good.
It got Rotella T6.

Buddy lost a cam in his 66 vette Mobil 1 synthetic.
He has a Honda that I swear was knocking from a rod or piston slap.. less than 100,000 miles.
Using Mobil synthetic..I had him send a sample to blackstone labs and it came back normal for his mileage.
I told him change the oil to T6 he did and the knocking immediately quit and MPG came up 4 MPG.
My corolla got T6 and I was rewarded with 35 MPG it bested the good Mobil oil.

He changed the oil in his 5.3 LS to T6 and MPG came up 1.5.
T6 has changed since then.

Gotta stay on top of this oil stuff for sure,, Every year it changes.

I say use European Mobil 1 because it does still have some good stuff in it..a bit lower than I like to see but better than our made for USA crud.

Driven has some really good LS oil with plenty of the good antiwear additives.

So you're saying if my manufacturer calls for Dexos1 Gen 2 spec SAE 5W-30 Full Synthetic oil, I should locate European Mobil 1? Where does one find that? I'm very satisfied with the performance of my tuned 3.6L LGZ V6 with 16K on it, but the mileage sucks and I want it to last forever so I would prioritize my wants in an engine oil as longevity/mileage/performance in that order. Are there any US spec oils that compete?

FWIW, the LGX series (or maybe it's the earlier ones?) are known for timing chain issues and apparently the job to replace one is a nightmare.

 

[swampratt]

When they lowered the critical anti wear additives in oils the lifters were not the only things that suffered.
You have wrist pins, timing chain, and timing chain tensioners oil pump gears.. it all takes a beating.
You need an oil with good shear properties also.

On your new 3.6 engine I have not much to add for you other than do your research and keep it changed often. Avoid a lot of short trips if you can as i think that is probably direct injection.

The back side of the valves like to build up with crud in those as you do not have fuel running across the valves to sort of keep them clean.
LSPI low speed pre ignition on these small engines with turbos or superchargers is an issue and I will leave you with some reading .

https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/resolving-low-speed-pre-ignition/

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4405377/1

That Bob Is The Oil Guy is a great sight to explore when it comes to oils and additive packages in oils and what people have used etc.


This one not as good but discusses a few points.
https://www.coloradofans.com/threads/valve-carbon-issues-on-new-di-engines.354801/

 

[Glocktogo]

When they lowered the critical anti wear additives in oils the lifters were not the only things that suffered.
You have wrist pins, timing chain, and timing chain tensioners oil pump gears.. it all takes a beating.
You need an oil with good shear properties also.

On your new 3.6 engine I have not much to add for you other than do your research and keep it changed often. Avoid a lot of short trips if you can as i think that is probably direct injection.

The back side of the valves like to build up with crud in those as you do not have fuel running across the valves to sort of keep them clean.
LSPI low speed pre ignition on these small engines with turbos or superchargers is an issue and I will leave you with some reading .

https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/resolving-low-speed-pre-ignition/

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4405377/1

That Bob Is The Oil Guy is a great sight to explore when it comes to oils and additive packages in oils and what people have used etc.


This one not as good but discusses a few points.
https://www.coloradofans.com/threads/valve-carbon-issues-on-new-di-engines.354801/

Yeah it's a GDI engine. I was considering an oil catch can setup and using Amsoil signature series synthetic?

 

[swampratt]

I read about the catch can deal.. that sounds like a a good thing.
My son worked at a place that rebuilds injectors and said the direct injection injectors get very dirty very fast.
He feels it is a terrible idea.
I still Love my Carburetors.