One-buck proposal for the combined muzzleloader and gun seasons

[Parks 788]

This is why we up the price of non res tags and license. It's around $400 for non res in Kansas, Iowa etc. It's about half that here. We double the price of ours and cut the number of hunters in half.... Same money
We do draw only and limit the number of tags, plus like stated earlier limit it to a once every 3 years like Sascatchewan, Iowa etc. That will keep guys from hoarding lease or buying land.
Iirc it was 2004-2005 when we dropped our 3 buck limit.

To Okie4570: No, I have never don't the "using the wife's tag" thing. I enjoy my hunting and firearms too much to try it. Plus, I have the type of luck that I would get caught doing something like that. Benefits don't outweight the negatives.

Allout: I really don't think upping the price will have any effect on the quality of bucks. First, you mention all the rich Texans are coming up to shoot Okie bucks and driving up the price of hunting leases. Well, those rich Texans won't blink an eye when paying the higher non resident fee. They will still come. Yea, you say, but what about all the others that aren't rich but do come to OK to hunt? Probably lose a lot of that "business". Almost like you are using the "tax the rich to solve the budget" issue. Never works.

Second, if money was an issue and the wildlife dept had more money they could better manage the states herd them why not just double or triple the OK resident lic and tags? It will allow the dept to have more money thus benefiting the deer herd. You probably don't like that idea though.

Third, like I said in an earlier post, when OK has the consistent high quality, huge bucks like Kansas, Iowa or Saskachawan (sp) then it makes it difficult to start charging extreme fees to any hunter.

All in all, it sounds like yours and some others take greater issue with the rich guys coming in and buying up or leasing quality hunting land. In reality, like them ranch I hunt on, just because the land is owned by a very wealthy man it doesn't mean that if he didn't own it the average Joe Oklahoman would have the opportunity to hunt it.

I would bet that there is far more unethical crap ( shooting forkhorns, etc) that goes on on public land and small private property than goes on on large high dollar leased land.

 

[AllOut]

Parks....
I think your missing the idea here.
Raising tag/lic prices keeps people from just flowing over to boarder. Yes I realize you come here from California to hunt so that would be a negative for you. Well the next part makes it even worse for you. But we are right next to Kansas who has great hunting, so good that I'd bet anyone on here I can put them on some KS public land that would rival the best private land we have here in OK. With that, why have the majority of Okies and most everyone on this board never taken a short drive up north to hunt? It's because it ain't cheep, $390 just to hunt one deer. But that's not the only reason.
Next, the "worse" part...
What we should do, Draw in only and not just draw in but you can only draw a buck tag once every 3 years and that's not guaranteed. Kansas is draw in only for non res, and used to be draw in only for residents til 2008. It still is with rifle but residents can buy OTC archery tags. But you can draw in every year there. Unlike Iowa and Saskachewan which is every 3 years.
Now what does this do? First look at how many non res lic we sell a year (I have no idea). Let's say it's 4000 at $225 a pop ($900k). Set a cap on non res tags at 2250 a year at $400 ($900k). State makes same money plus there is normally a $25ish nonrefundable charge just to apply, so we would make money off that.

This is what we gain....
State makes same or more money, plus we lesson the amount on nonresident hunters. That in turn means less bucks killed buy them, less hunting pressure by them, less lease and competition from them.
Sounds like a win for us?

And finally the big rich Texans....
It's not the rich guys we have to worry so much about, they can afford to stay on the other side if the Red and do. That's why the prices are so high there. The guys we fight most with are the normal average Joe that can't afford to compete with Big Rich Texas guys so they come here and hunt cause it's cheep. Those guys buy, lease whatever. But most those guys won't tie up a property or waiste money buying land they know they will only get to hunt once every 3 years at most. As far as them putting up a chicken coup and claimg a residence, ya I'm sure that might happen here and there. But just like everything else, the majority of people will try and do the right (legal) thing.

Sorry for the long post but to touch on a couple other points you made.
Me not liking them raising 2x or 3x resident tags prices. Won't matter to me cause mine are covered for the rest if my life. That's not saying I want them to do it though.

As far as me personally, I'm never in competition for spots. Like Dennis said earlier, some of us are blessed with good spots. I hunt all over Oklahoma, some on family land, some leased, some I own and some I make deals with for hunting rights (I trade the hay rights of my place). I also bow hunt Kansas, I lived there for a few years with a buddy and got my lifetime while I was there. So I now hunt as a resident for life. Plus a new venture as if this year is Mexico. Starting next year the majority of my hunting will be south of the Rio Grande.
Don't take that as bragging please, and you are probably sitting there thing "why does this guy even give a chit about OK then?" It's simple, this is my home. It's where my family and friends are and I have a lot of respect and pride in my home state. I would really love to see my home be blessed with great hunting and be able to share that with my fellow Okies. AND to not have that blessing trampled on and taken advantage of buy people who arnt from here and didn't put in the effort or work to build it up to what it can become.

 

[tjones96761]

They are totally undermanned, and have way too much area to enforce. I'm in favor of finding a way to hire more game rangers.

Having to chase night poachers, and then answer calls during the day is almost an impossible job. They do what they can, but in the end its you and I that suffer the poachers taking our animals.

Totally agree. I'm not going to point the guy out, but I called the game ranger for the county I was in during muzzle loader season when I rolled up on a couple guys with a rifle layed over the cab of the truck about to drop the hammer on small buck in a persimmon patch beside the county road. They took off when they saw me. I got a good look at the vehicle to give a description along with a partial plate number. The ranger took my call and basically said it was too far out to be worth the time and effort. Apparently rangers are assigned by county and we were at the county line 20 miles from town. I would bet all true-blue poachers are privy to such intel and know the grey areas.

 

[264Magnum]

Kansas who has great hunting, so good that I'd bet anyone on here I can put them on some KS public land that would rival the best private land we have here in OK.

I accept that bet. When do we leave?

 

[AllOut]

I accept that bet. When do we leave?

When ever your ready, you got a tag?
I need a good excuse to go up there LOL

 

[Okie4570]

Totally agree. I'm not going to point the guy out, but I called the game ranger for the county I was in during muzzle loader season when I rolled up on a couple guys with a rifle layed over the cab of the truck about to drop the hammer on small buck in a persimmon patch beside the county road. They took off when they saw me. I got a good look at the vehicle to give a description along with a partial plate number. The ranger took my call and basically said it was too far out to be worth the time and effort. Apparently rangers are assigned by county and we were at the county line 20 miles from town. I would bet all true-blue poachers are privy to such intel and know the grey areas.

It also makes a big difference if there's an animal on the ground. It's going to be your word against theirs anyway, but if there's a deer on the ground, it's a whole different ball game.

 

[Okie4570]

I accept that bet. When do we leave?

.264 win mag is too small for KS bucks anyway

 

[ElkStalkR]

Everybody thinks KS is so great. I don't get it!!

Check this list out: http://wiredtohunt.com/2012/02/07/t...-2005-2010-entries-up-400-over-past-30-years/

KS is 8th BEHIND Kentucky, Indiana, and Missouri. Really when you look at it their stats aren't all that impressive considering their regulations and what other states have done. IMO, the only reason you hear about KS is all the damn TV shows. Right along with Iowa! Whats crazy is the #1 producing B&C state in the last 5-7yrs hardly gets mentioned on TV......WISCONSIN!! Yep, Wisconsin. Whens the last time you heard the Lee and Tiff or the Drury's headed up to WI for a hunt?........yep, media pumps and we buy it. Not to say KS isn't a good place to hunt!! I just think its overrated, mainly due to the media. Yes, undeniably they have a larger percentage of big bucks than OK.

I don't want any more buck regulations in the name of producing "quality" bucks. If we want to produce quality bucks that should be left up to the hunters themselves and not "forced" on us. Educate and promote passing on young bucks! Push it in the hunter education, but don't tie our hands so we can't. I think OK is doing a pretty good job of heading that way. Look at that list. We jumped from 22nd to 14th in 20 yrs! That is proof that hunters are taking the responsibility themselves!

It makes me so mad to think that if I have the opportunity to harvest a mature buck in gun and muzzleloader seasons on my own family land that I potentially will not be able to do so now!! You are punishing those that would pass on young bucks because of those hunters who do not! And for what???? It certainly isn't for the viability of the herd!! Its just so we can have a great number of bigger bucks?! That is wrong!

Educate and promote, but don't make more damn laws that restrict me. Rant off.

 

[Harley1953]

Everybody thinks KS is so great. I don't get it!!


I don't want any more buck regulations in the name of producing "quality" bucks. If we want to produce quality bucks that should be left up to the hunters themselves and not "forced" on us. Educate and promote passing on young bucks! Push it in the hunter education, but don't tie our hands so we can't. I think OK is doing a pretty good job of heading that way. Look at that list. We jumped from 22nd to 14th in 20 yrs! That is proof that hunters are taking the responsibility themselves!

It makes me so mad to think that if I have the opportunity to harvest a mature buck in gun and muzzleloader seasons on my own family land that I potentially will not be able to do so now!! You are punishing those that would pass on young bucks because of those hunters who do not! And for what???? It certainly isn't for the viability of the herd!! Its just so we can have a great number of bigger bucks?! That is wrong!

Educate and promote, but don't make more damn laws that restrict me. Rant off.

I have thought about this since I first heard the proposal.... I think Elkstalkr has pretty well summed up my opinions on this. To add another thought to the question, How many years now has it been since we reduced the number of bucks allowed to TWO? Have we really been long enough to know the results of reducing from three bucks to two? I am not in favor of this proposal to reduce to one buck in ML/Gun season.........

 

[Okie4570]

I have thought about this since I first heard the proposal.... I think Elkstalkr has pretty well summed up my opinions on this. To add another thought to the question, How many years now has it been since we reduced the number of bucks allowed to TWO? Have we really been long enough to know the results of reducing from three bucks to two? I am not in favor of this proposal to reduce to one buck in ML/Gun season.........

Good question. I'm not sure how long or what data they will use to dertimine the quality of bucks, other than what gets put in the records books. And I know a lot of people who have shot many Cy Curtis and B&C bucks, who don't want the publicity, and haven't entered them. For myself, I'm seeing bigger bucks in the last 5 years than ever before. I think the number of bucks reduced to 2 was about ten years ago.